Vexen Crabtree 2015

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Vexen Crabtree's Live Journal

Sociology, Theology, Anti-Religion and Exploration: Forcing Humanity Forwards


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Vexen Crabtree 2015
vexen

We will never remember!

Rev. Foppe VanderZwaag, speaking in a relatively heavy non-English accent, dropped this clanger during a public and recorded sermon on the morning of 2003-Feb-23:

"Why do people do such horrible things to each other? Why is that we have men like Saddam Hussein, being such a terror in his own country. Why is it that we have terrorists that do these things that happened to us on 9 11, on that day we will never remember!"

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Hah... yeah. Talk about misspeaking! Some kind of subconscious slip there, Rev??

Well, maybe I'm just not a good little U.S. citizen because I am sick to DEATH of hearing about it all -- Sept. 11th, the Middle East in general, all the war sh*t. Gawd, get me OFF this planet!!!! (Don't worry; I'll get over this temporary apathy eventually.) If G Dubya ever ventures off the green, green grass of home (the White House) and travels to... say, Australia, I only hope someone would be kind enough to THROW HIM TO THE CROCODILES. And not just because of the war issue either!

::mustering a smile:: >:[ >:| >:] :\ :] :)

Totally off-topic, but, have you seen this?
I'm sure it's probably nothing new to you, being it's from the COS 'n all. ;)


Yes, I know that infamous document quite well.

Be very careful, it is not from the COS. churchofsatan.org is NOT, NOT the Church of Satan. It is an entity called "The First Church of Satan" which is a much later imitation, unfortunately they do not actually make it clear that they are not the Church of Satan, and I've met many members of the COS who have read FCoS stuff and became really quite confused!

The FCoS is the second largest Satanic church, it is a valid Satanic body, but it is annoying and almost fraudulent in the extent that it mimicks the CoS, and doesn't differentiate it from it.

Much of that document is actually errornous, however there are truths in it, so it is generally good to read over, as long as you take into account that the point of it is to discredit LaVey (in particular, to discerdit Blanche Barton's biography of LaVey) and towards that aim it does take liberties with truth.

Some of the commonly repeated biographical details of LaVey's life are exaggerations, his life has become slightly mythologized, and actually (does this ever surprise anyone?) I have an essay in the works explaining why and how this happens. (This is something that has happened to founder of _every_ world religion and most religions, such as Buddhism, Christianity, Islam, and modern cults like Scientology, too, have found that aspects of the founders life have become mythologized even during their lives).

Now, unlike other superstitious (theistic ones) or UFO religions (Scientology), the founders' life story is actually irrelevent to the philosophy of Satanism, meaning that it doesn't really matter, however (as you can guess) it is always worth checking the facts when various people claim that LaVey did or didn't do certain things... and, the two most biased sources are the COS biographies, and his dectractors "LaVey Files" (which is what that document is known as).

I know a few of the prominent organizers and members of the FCoS in England, and I get on well with them, but there are some inter denominational fights... *sigh* -, such is the unfortunate results of the natural course of events during the development of religions.

You will have noticed that I don't enter into any satanist denominational politics across my sites, I find it is not mature or useful to do so, even though it *is* tempting to post warning about non-COS Churches, because people do mistake the FCoS for the CoS sometimes.

Be very careful, it is not from the COS. churchofsatan.org is NOT, NOT the Church of Satan. Okay! :) Good to know. I am quite open-minded and curious, but add my level of skepticism about these things and... well, let's just say I knew if there was ANYONE who'd have a solid reply about it, it'd be you. :)

Mythologizing: Yes, I've seen that this happens with almost every world religion's founder.

Now, unlike other superstitious (theistic ones) or UFO religions (Scientology), the founders' life story is actually irrelevent to the philosophy of Satanism, meaning that it doesn't really matter,
I think people get caught up in the "did they practice what they preached?" curiosity. However, it does make more sense that people take the philosophy and ponder the wisdom in THAT rather than actually *worshipping* the human founder.

Much of that document is actually erroneous, however there are truths in it, so it is generally good to read over, as long as you take into account that the point of it is to discredit LaVey (in particular, to discerdit Blanche Barton's biography of LaVey) and towards that aim it does take liberties with truth.
Well, can you ferret out which parts are true and which aren't, or is it unclear even to you? :)

Interdenominational fights: Yep. *check!* Sometimes even very established religions are prone to it.

Denominational politics: Why don't you post information about the other "Churches of Satan" just to clear up any confusion anyway, avoiding any tendency toward bias? (or, is that possible?) :)

Well, can you ferret out which parts are true and which aren't, or is it unclear even to you? :)

Yes, it is unclear to me, but partially this is because I don't have much interest in checking up on such things!
Erm, I got some text ("LaVey's life is a lie" and "Is the Church of Satan a fraud?") on http://www.dpjs.co.uk/misc.html ... it basically says that if LaVey was a liar, a theif, immoral then it doesn't change the fact that I use his writings, and find it works very well. I also say that I am completely sure that he was in it all for himself, and actually wouldn't believe him even if he told me otherwise!

Established religions are more prone to interdenominational fights... the older the religion, the worse it gets... Max Weber and other sociologists have wrote books about this precise phenomenon (it's not just a religious thing, happens in all fields of knowledge and society)

"Why don't you post information about the other "Churches of Satan" just to clear up any confusion anyway, avoiding any tendency toward bias? (or, is that possible?) :)"
I have tried! I may try again at some point. There are a large number of Satanic organisations, maintaining a list of them is next to impossible as most of them do not last 6 monthes, they change affiliations, names and members found off-shoots with such regularity that any list is always out of date.

OMG, another great Vexen site to read through, yay! :) I knew if I either searched thoroughly enough or just asked, you'd point me to something you have an essay on!

Anyway, as another example, I'm sure people have heard of Ernest Hemingway's life and what his personality & behavior were described as, and yet people still read his writings and get something from them. Does it matter he was an obnoxious alcoholic? Not really. He's remembered for his works.

I understand many of your points: most people are usually in it 'for themselves' (of course!); if something yields positive results the veracity matters not, etc. Many people would probably disagree (okay, um, many Christian people) and yet I don't. I've already seen the *take it for what it's worth to you* stance in action! Also, looking for absolute truth and perfection in any human-designed religion is like searching for a unicorn in Shangri-La don't you think? Wasn't it Rumi who said, "Say not 'I have found THE truth' but rather 'I have found a truth'"? Something to that effect.

Established religions: Actually, that's more what I meant. I don't know what I typed earlier; it's getting late here. I think I'm tired. :) And in society/knowledge, too; the bickering just never ends, and probably never will!

Multiple branches/orgs: The same kind of thing has happened with pagan religions. Many, many different traditions; multiple branches within those... it can get very convoluted!

ps: what're you doin' up this early? :Þ

Up all night :-)
Was socializing, then went to club, then meandered home, am now going to sleep because I'm doing exactly the same thing tonite (Fri night)!

I'm trying to get in as much as possible before I start work again!

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