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From: ![[info]](http://p-stat.livejournal.com/img/userinfo.gif) kat_d9152 |
Date: March 27th, 2005 08:41 pm (UTC) |
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THANK YOU!
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I would firstly like to point out that I have read many articles on Satanism online, in books, magazines etc. and I have never before felt compelled to write a 'thank you' note to the authors of said articles, so my praise is rare.
As a practicing Satanist, I have spent months attempting to reconcile, in my head, the supposed charlatan and definite unashamed liar, with the man who brought us excellent 'teachings'. As you may have guessed by now, I am talking about Anton La Vey.
For any Satanists screaming with rage at the fact that I dared call one of our great figureheads an unashamed liar, I wish to emphasise that I am a Satanist, but greater than that, I am an extremely well educated Satanist. I direct all those who think La Vey is unimpeachable to consider his essay on Satanic Weddings in 'Satan Speaks'(page 118) when he states that: "I don't perform Satanic Weddings", following up with the conclusion that the only marriage he would perform would be a demonic one. (one where the bride or groom creates an imaginary ideal partner) Compare this with the photograph in 'The Secret Life of a Satanist' of him actually performing a wedding - pretty conclusive proof, I'd say!
La Vey IS a liar. He admits as much himself, and any who blindly follow his every word without question are no better than the sheepish droves of supernatural optimists who pay through the nose for fortune tellers, unable to see that most (if not all) are simply very efficient cold readers.
Anyway, back to my original point. I desperately did not want him to be a liar, but the more I read, the more he contradicted himself. The information released by his daughter, Zeena was the final stone in my metaphoric coffin. My faith was now being tested, and severely. Could I follow a religion based upon the teachings of self-confessed liar? It was not until I stumbled upon your essay that I found my answer. It really doesn't matter if the source of philosophical truth is pure, or if it was all said in jest, so long as the philosophy itself speaks to people.
Thank you for freeing up my mind for more pressing issues.
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| From: (Anonymous) |
Date: April 27th, 2005 11:57 pm (UTC) |
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Lavey a fraud...
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I've been very confused myself. I seem to be finding info from unbiased and biased sources that confirm that Lavey lied about most of his legend.
I have a strong distaste for Confabulators, I've dealt with alot of them and they piss me right the fuck off.
I questioon the integrity of a man that would set up a great irreligion like Satanism and yet lie so much and confabulate great stories about onself to make onself out to be bigger/greater than one is. In psychological terms, does'nt a person whom confabulates alot to boost ones own ego by getting the adoration of mindless sheep do so for a lack of something in their own psyche and personal self-esteem; If one is so strong, why would they feel a need to make up fantastic stories about themselves to get respect from people???
I question Laveys integrity as a person{I'm somewhat undecided however}, I depise those that confabulate; nonetheless, like you said Vexen, it does'nt affect the usefullness and validity of his philosophy, I still admire it.
Lavey the philosopher, a intriquing and intelligent person; Lavey-the person whom confabulated, not someone I can really respect on the personal level.
I've never felt the need to confabulate myself in order to look big; I am what I am, I've found blatantly honesty to be best and most useful, my ego is strong enough to not care what others think so that I would confabulate to get their respect.
However, I will say this for Lavey, at leats his lies did'nt hurt anyonem they were lies to make himself look big, but they did not have a direct hurtful affect on anyones physical well beeing or really even their mental well-beeing{so long as Satanists learn to seperate Lavey the Satanic philosopher from Lavey the confabulating man}.
But again, for someone whom talked so much of beeing comfortable in ones own ego beeing satanic, I wonder-why did he feel the need to pump himself up on lies to make himself look greater than he was???
I think the CoS needs to take more "RESPONSIBILITY" in informing people whom wish to join them, or those whom would call themselves Satanists, and people in general about such things; Lavey himself should've showed more "responsibility" in this too; How can they talk of "responsibility to the repsonisble" so much when they he confabulated and they don't go out of their way to inform people and go out of their way to make excuses for his actions?
Again, I still respect Laveys philosophy and the stuff he came up with and wrote,etc, philosophically and for bringing Satanism out of the gutters and into a respected limelight, but his lies can only hurt his church and his own person.
Bill "Iconoclastithon" Baker
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From: vexen |
Date: April 28th, 2005 06:02 pm (UTC) |
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Re: Lavey a fraud...
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"As a Satanist, I use LaVey's works as I use any other material or source. For my own gains and self empowerment. I do not see that it is important whether LaVey was honest, truthful, a nice person or even rich. I don't care if he was sincere or not... we can still use his writings. LaVey has created something that is useful to me even if it was all for himself. We should not doubt for one moment that everything he done was for himself. I wouldn't believe him if he said otherwise!" This comes from my page http://www.dpjs.co.uk/counter/fraud.html , which this very discussion board is based on. Why do you care so much about whether a dead guy bigged himself up or not? Seriously... are you writing a new biography? Are you trying to say something that hasn't been said before or trying to tell people something new, as if they haven't already looked into it themselves? What are your motives, and what do you want to achieve? How can you, after reading the page linked, STILL think that anyone thinks LaVey was some goody-goody who never lied? Are you naive? Satanists are the least naive people I know - they KNOW that LaVey lied, because LaVey was a human! Everyone lies. But, the Church of Satan exists, it's philosophies are sound and it's outlook on life is meaningful and empowering. So whatever LaVey's motives were, whatever his tactics, they WORKED. THAT is the seperation of the man from the work. It's time to drop the past, buddy, and direct your energies to the future! |
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