Vexen Crabtree's Live Journal - Christian Institute hypocrisy & immorality

10:25 am April 17th, 2003




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	Christian Institute hypocrisy & immorality
	Wow it was hot yesterday! I slept just in shorts last nite on top of my duvet with my fan on. Aspen Fox has duly and rightly poked me for not stretching after (or before) playing football yesterday, and now I'm achey all over. All my jogging muscles are fine, but football inner-thigh usage is achey. Christian Institute (UK) hypocrisy₃ Two Christian workers employed by Sefton Council have refused to tark part in adoptions for gay parents. As such a thing is part of their job, they have been fairly enough been threatened with dismissal. The Christian Institute, one of the most active Christian political groups in the UK, is fighting for the two Christians cause "based on Christian principles". "However, during the consultation on the Employment Directive [...] the Christian Institute - and other faith groups - fought for the right to sack non-Christian workers who didn't support the "ethos" of faith-based organisations that employed them. Now, it seems they think it is OK for Christian employees to undermine the ethos of secular employers and get away with it. " The Christian Institute wants to be able to sack people for not having the same beliefs as themselves, Christians, but also wants Christians to be able to remain in companies despite having religious beliefs that undermine the job the employees are supposed to do. In short, the Christian Institute is not fighting for morals, but supporting sectarianism and discrimination based on religion, and undermining the stability of society. It is my belief that if you cannot do a job, the employees do not have to pay you, and can fire you. So, if you object to doing your job for whatever reason, be it religious reasons, moral ones, personal circumstance, the boss can fire you. Now, in reality, if the logical reason is only a temporary inhibition, then the boss probably wont. And rightly, there are laws to protect pregnant women. But in the modern world, you simply can't discriminate against gays, even if you do believe they're "immoral", because such discrimination causes hate and evil. But then again, the Christian Institute is famous for it's opposition of gay rights. [3] 2003 Mar 21 NSS newsline http://www.secularism.org.uk/newspress/news21mar3t.htm Christian Institute hypocrisy & immorality Tags: christian institute, christianity Current Mood: awake

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	From: empiress	Date: April 17th, 2003 06:26 am (UTC)		(Link)

"In short, the Christian Institute is not fighting for morals, but supporting sectarianism and discrimination based on religion, and undermining the stability of society."

Agreed...they are NOT fighting for morals at all. Those women have no right to have thier biases and phobias continue protected by an employer, they should be let go.

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	From: vexen	Date: April 17th, 2003 06:51 am (UTC)		(Link)

The Christian Institute and the Christian Alliance are the two organisations that have been opposing gay rights here for many years - I debated against some (by proxy) of them in 1996, then headed by Baronness Young, also the head of the House of Lords. They pretty much oppose anything that sounds gay tolerant, let alone gay rights... I'm scared that the fundamentalists and Christian right, if they continue their rise to numerical superiority, are going to be as strong as USA groups like the Southern Baptists, Family Concern, etc... the sane majority of Christianity here is, unfortunately, as usual, much more polite and quiet than the extreme wings.

The CofE itself is divided, with several groupings of internal churches and areas being led by fundamentalists, there are now 2 government-sponsored Christian schools here ran by fundamentalists that teach creationism in preferance to science... we need to import some USA mid/liberal Christian groups who are more used to dealing with this, because ours don't know what to do! Even Rowan Williams has recently backed off from gay rights and distanced himself from his previous tolerant-sounding comments.

But... looking on the bright side, in Pakistan, Iran, Morocco, Syria... homosexuality is an offence worthy of death by stoning, so who am I to complain about mere equal rights?

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From: katminnaar	Date: April 17th, 2003 11:39 am (UTC)		(Link)

Don't forget the Promise Keepers (here in the US)! They're working hard to gain political power and turn back the clock on all kinds of things.

The kinds of job discrimination here are right now a little different. There is some protection for gays, but other minorities are often given preference just in order to meet some affirmative action quota. This seems to be going by the wayside and it's being challenged, but it's still in effect and many people find it unfair -- to accept college students or employees based MAINLY upon their race, rather than their qualifications.

The faith-based initiatives are getting on some people's nerves but certainly not enough. Too many people are withdrawing and being quiet instead of speaking out exactly when they need to! I also fear that science is and will continue to be dragged down in schools by religion. I don't think it's even legal here for public schools to teach creationism, but in private schools they can get away with a lot.

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	From: vexen	Date: April 18th, 2003 02:16 am (UTC)		(Link)

There are lots of groups such as the Promise Keepers in the US, like the Jerry Falwell Institute, American Family Association, Christian Network, but their influence doesn't really extend over here (not in a publically known way), though the fundamentalist Christian churches that are rising no doubt use them as inspiration and perhaps in some cases are linked to them financially.

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	From: vexen	Date: April 18th, 2003 02:31 am (UTC)		(Link)

Para2
The same happens here, a black person could (for example) find a company that is under-represented in black employees, and apply to work for that company and would be at an advantage. It is a disadvantage of political correctness that this occurs, but, the solution of this mild and odd problem is elusive.

Para3
http://www.cnn.com/2000/US/03/08/creationism.vs.evolution/
is relevent, I've not looked into how far such things have gone in the USA, recently fundamentalists /this/ side of the ocean have been getting my attention too much... I see the future of the USA as a more fundamentalist country, and feel like "giving up" trying to see how I can help, and am now worrying about fundies in *this* country.

With the addition of Poland to the EU, too, I am also worried about the increase in power of the Catholic Church, and of fundamentalism across Europe. We have some excellent secular states... um, countries, France, Germany, UK... but others such as Greece and The Vatican (observer) have powerful extremely conservative Christian powerbases.

There are two muslim faith schools here, one of them (in Scotland) has failed nearly all the government tests and is in danger of being closed down. Half the students time was spent on Islam/Koran studies, and all other areas of science, fitness and education were poor.

I completely don't agree with faith schools. It's like having a "Communist school" where children go and get indoctrinated by staunchly communist teachers, teaching them history and politics... even if exam results are otherwise good, the children themselves are at huge risk of intellectual harm in such biased environments.

(Oh dear... I sense an anti-sectarian school webpage coming up)

Excuse me whilst I copy this LJ entry in my notes files...

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From: (Anonymous)	Date: November 17th, 2004 05:22 pm (UTC)		(Link)

By the way when I say incest, I'm talking about parents and children.
Perhaps there is another term for this. I can be contacted on rmsaunders@utvinternet.com

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From: (Anonymous)	Date: November 17th, 2004 05:17 pm (UTC)		(Link)

I am not a regular o this page. I think there are a few points that need clarified.

1. The Christian Institute obviously think that homosexuality is wrong.
2. They think that it is wrong because they believe there is a God, who made creation and made it according to certain laws.
3. They believe that he has forbidden homosexuality (as well as rape, incest, consensual sex between heterosexual couples outside of a lifelong marriage, and bestiality.
4. Why? Because, the book and person who they trust, base their life on, follow and often are ready to die for says that it is wrong.
5.As such they really do have the best interests of everyone at heart in stopping as much as they can the spread of these practices.
6. These women were prepared to lose their jobs for this- you cannot deny that that was brave. They have enough work to fairly make up the hours for their employer in other ways without going against their conscience and I am sure that that is fair enough.
7. They are against violence against anyone including those they disagree with
8. They believe that all have sinned and turned away from God, and can be offered forgiveness by accepting God's free gift of change and being saved from the grip and punishment of all the wrong of their lives.
They have to try to stand against what they believe God says is wrong. But they should recognise there is no difference. All have equally done evil things and must ask for forgiveness from God.
9. Remember- not all people are Christians who say they are- some don't understand what it means

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