From: (Anonymous)	Date: July 14th, 2003 09:42 am (UTC)		(Link)
True Anglicanism Isn't 'Liberal'

As a baptized and confirmed Anglican, and a relatively young person (early twenties), I have become increasingly concerned about the level of so-called 'liberalism' within the Anglican communion, and this article proves my worst fears about the potential future of this once great Christian organization. The church, as it stands today, is dying. In my view this is can be for one of two reasons: either A. God is testing the church or B. The church has too greatly aligned itself with the world. I fear both, but with increasing weight being placed on the latter with every passing year. Just as the world dies, a secular church will eventually die also. The rise of Christian fundamentalism is not and should not be interpreted as a threat to Anglicanism - rather the Anglican church should embrace this new found passion for serving Christ. Fundamentalism seems harsh only because it stands up to the world in the same way that the early church did (and was persecuted for). If the Church isn't Holy, there's no more reason to go on Sunday. Christ did not die for a excessively liberal and diluted form of man-made christianity. A church of that colour is only as alive as the gargoyles that adorn its aging cathedrals.

	From: vexen	Date: July 14th, 2003 11:54 am (UTC)		(Link)
	Re: True Anglicanism Isn't 'Liberal'

Religion has always been lower in bigger cities - it seems as cities continue to become bigger, the process continues (whatever it is) that causes religion to decline. Note this isn't just happening to the Church of England, but all forms of Christianity except the radical, middle-class American style of evangelism which is very much "aligned to the world" (it seems it's commercialism, politics and organized nature makes it successful).

If God is indeed the cause of the decline, why do you oppose it's will by remaining in the Church of England? If God does not want it to decline, then why *does* it decline? Your choice!

From: (Anonymous)	Date: December 27th, 2004 09:15 pm (UTC)		(Link)
Re: True Anglicanism Isn't 'Liberal'

Gee, I'm one of those American "fundamentalist" born-again Christians and I AM NOT aligned with the world (most are not ... if they are true Christians). And the previous writer is correct ... God will destroy a liberal, non-Bible-Based church ... i.e., the Church of England and the Catholic Church is not far behind, as many others. As Jesus warns about the latter days, watch for the apostate church age, as this will be a sign of the coming of the end-times. Sadly, we are in the Apostate Church age ... you know, the one Jesus will spit out of his mouth. As Jesus/God states in the Bible in Revelations, speaking to the church you mentioned above, "I will spit you out of my mouth, for you are neither hot nor cold." The type of church YOU want is completely vile to God/Jesus. If a church is not full of born-again Bible-Believing/Teaching, Christ following people, God has total disdain for it and will destroy it. It just proves that God is in control and His Word (the Bible) is true and eternal. The world and people like you just keep on proving it! I pray for you! :>

From: (Anonymous)	Date: March 26th, 2004 10:17 am (UTC)		(Link)
Fundamentalism

WCCC (World Conquerors Christian Centre),a fundamentalist, evangelical, pentecostal church, Lorne Street, Leith , Edinburgh, is run by Pastor Climate Irungu and his wife Jennifer. He is not qualified, and his church is not recognised by any ecclesiastical authority. His church does not give members access to financial accounts. Pastor Climate is a Satanist and devil-worshipper. His satanic rites can be witnessed in public at the car park on the top of Calton Hill, Edinburgh, on the last Friday of each month, generally between 2200 hours and 0100 hours. These rites are certainly not Christian, neither are they Biblical.

From: (Anonymous)	Date: August 8th, 2004 01:15 pm (UTC)		(Link)
Re: Fundamentalism

i have been to wccc and all i can say is that it is not for me.
i think he is the most patronising preacher i've ever listened to.
i found some of the accounts of his life contradictory which made me find it difficult to go in and be ready to soak in what he was saying.
on the question of qualifications as a pastor on a personal level i believe God can use even the most illiterate people amongst us.
furthermore these 'professional' requirements have turned going into the ministry just like some other career and taken the element of annointing and calling out of the equation.
and then we turn aroung and ask why are churches being turned into pubs left, right and center. i dont mean this is the only reason but its part of the problem.
so pastor climates lack of orthodox training does not bother me at all.

From: (Anonymous)	Date: November 27th, 2006 03:29 pm (UTC)		(Link)
Re: Fundamentalism

If I may ask, what sort of rites does he performs? I am interested because I will be joining the church as a new member, maybe that will help me to be aware of anything sinister from the outset.

Curious, Newcastle.

From: (Anonymous)	Date: December 13th, 2006 01:00 pm (UTC)		(Link)
Re: Fundamentalism

He is not a devil worshiper and does not do any "rites" he's just a bit strange and a little stubborn.
People just get a bit caught up in their own hype, but then again only God knows!

From: (Anonymous)	Date: May 18th, 2004 06:32 am (UTC)		(Link)
Tolerance?

Dear Vexen,

In your article on growing fundamentalism in the west you say that the solutions to this problem are:

Opposition and closing of faith schools
Removal of religion-specific legal rights
Heavy promotion of scientific education
Raising awareness of the threat of fundamentalism growing from within the Anglican communion
Support of gay tolerance (to show up the immorality of fundamentalists)
Removal of religious pathways of power

I believe that these supposed solutions are far more draconian, discriminatory and harmful than anything that conservative evangelicals would ever recommend.

To tolerate something is to put up with it, not act differently towards it, even though you know it to be wrong.

If you were tolerant you would accept what you call 'fundamentalism'. 'Fundamentalist' Christians believe that homosexuality is not God's plan for human sexuality and thus wrong; it isn't any more morally deplorable than things acts (or attitudes of the heart) like theft, lying, and rebelling against God in other ways, and so on and so on. We do not believe that homosexuals are any more sinful than the rest of humanity. But you seem to think that fundamentalists are intolerant because they think a position you hold is wrong. That's not intolerance, it's remaining firm to one's convictions.

If you really advocated tolerance then you would not hold the opinions you do. As it is, you are intolerant of anyone who disagrees with you and thus you undermine your own position.

I believe that we should all have the legal right to freedom of religion and belief, but it is a fact that only some people will be right. We cannot all be, can we? If we can, then I have just as much right to advocate my beliefs as you do yours.

Please be consistent and wake up to cool crisp logic.

David Potter

davidjamespotter@hotmail.com

From: (Anonymous)	Date: February 16th, 2005 06:37 pm (UTC)		(Link)
Re: Tolerance?

So let's bring back slavery, silence our women and cover their heads and any other outdated commandments of god. Infact, lets also bring back the taboo of pork and enforce circumscision. Oh but I forgot, Paul miraculously through gods word, removed a doctrine which would have been almost impossible to sell to the masses. The isolation of a group due to their genetic makeup is disgusting and as a christian you should know better..... we can at least forgive those from 1500 years ago for knowing no better. I welcome the day that the evangelical movement welcomes another minority group into its ranks without sanctions. This day will surely come..... working from the inside. MJI

From: (Anonymous)	Date: August 10th, 2007 05:32 pm (UTC)		(Link)
Re: Tolerance?

You are ignorant of the bible and what it says. As if the bible promotes slavery. This is absurd. Head covering? I think you are confusing Muslims with Christians. Before you start making such comments, why don't you spend some time educating yourself instead of attacking a straw man.

From: (Anonymous)	Date: July 6th, 2004 08:26 am (UTC)		(Link)
WCCC

I think that you must remember that God gave us all the power of Discernment. I attended World Conquerors Centre before, and Pastor Climate is charismatic and has a huge ego! If you go to this place knowing it is a circus! Then you will be fine...like all great cults there has to be a strong, enigmatic, power-driven leader of sheep to follow. Think of all the cult leaders and Hitler. The doctrine of this place is man made, by the Pastor and his wife. If you realize this and have the sense to know that there is no holy communion allowed? And the people who attend are they followers/disiples of Jesus or the Gospel according to Pastor Climate and Jennifer?
I would like to offer that simply pray for this place. If its a good seed it will indeed lead people to good things in God. However, sometimes evil can appear to flourish also, and Id question if it would be wiser to go out and get yourself a Bible. Rather than pay for P, Climate's doctrine!?
Climate is a good preacher but he is clever and manipulative in his sermons. Sadly I have witnessed broken down people who are caught up in this and devoting their entire life to a man whos main ambition is to own his own private jet.
Is it an honest church? Where is its contribution to Leith Churches together? To the homeless?poor? Every church must list its income and expenditure and be of ordained pators who have attended theological college.
i think this centre sadly is for people who cannot think for themselves and are lead in life instead of being leaders!

From: (Anonymous)	Date: July 7th, 2004 12:47 am (UTC)		(Link)
Re: WCCC

i came to wccc 2 years ago, i was nobody ,i did have sense of direction. but since i joined to wccc my life has changed, i have understanding, i was poor i could not even support all my self, but now am one of the prime people in the city of Edinburgh.Pastor Climate preaches one doctrine and that is the Bible. about the Communion, you ask anybody or come to our church every end of the month Friday 7.00pm or call the church prayer centre and you will find we have communions every time, even now we having early morning prayer 6:15, and every monday we have communion. Pastor Climate ambition is not just to own private Jet is Ambition is to win souls. Just like other international preachers Jet is a tool to reach as many souls as you can and to protect the anointing. it seems to me all critics of Wccc are failures, right now struggling in thier lives.
there is a big evidence the anointing of Healing and prosperity upon pastor climate. so be careful don't open your mouth were pastor climate is concerned i have not seen any one who has raised against p.climate & jennifer without severly punished by God, i think P.Climate is God's favourite Because of his obedience Read this "Do not touch my anointed ones;do my prophets no harm." He called down famine on the land and destroyed all their supplies of food; ( Ps 105 ;15-16) be careful brother dont play with fire. i know it i have tried it, and now i am back to wccc in full swing and am blessed than never before.
i know right now you are struggling in your life, come back.
if not watch us fly high, i dont care about the offering it is not my Job it is the Adminstrators Job, there no where in the bible says you must know what the priest does with the offering, infact cursed are who try to.

From: (Anonymous)	Date: September 8th, 2004 03:00 am (UTC)		(Link)
Re: WCCC

For a person to visit and begin to dodge the reality of life as it unfolds is a real danger. Wccc is a church where reality is preached and those who seek reality in theological colleges may die without seeing it. Reality is in the bible why dodge it face it brother you will live to enjoy life. Jesus said all the things pharisees were not prepared to hear so they called him a conman. Mybe the Spiritual standard was too high for them. Dear I only advise you one thing get saved and serve the Lord Jesus Christ with all your heart. Do not seek him in some people faked in theological colleges.

From: (Anonymous)	Date: September 13th, 2004 12:17 pm (UTC)		(Link)
WCCC

John 10 v 1 - 18
Blow the trumpet and sound the alarm!!
Not all that seems good is good, test the spirits. God will NOT be mocked. One day every knee will bow and tongue confess that Jesus Christ is Lord. No man can serve two masters.

A warning in the love and compassion of Jesus Christ. Pastor Climate as the shepherd of WCCC and as the representative of God in the Church, can you truly say that you are not in sin? Can you truly say you have and will lay down your life for the sheep that congregate around you or are they like lambs being led to the slaughter? Pastor Climate before God can you say that you are not mis-leading fellow Christians to beleive something that isn't so? That you are not lying or causing Christians to fornicate??

The word is very clear and precise towards such sin. This day before God I plead with you to turn from your ways, repent and turn to God. Time is running out, don't get caught short. Life's hang in the balance and God will hold you accountable. These are God's sheep not yours. God see's all. Get right with God. Get married. Hand back belongings. Turn from your practices and see God move.

Love in Jesus, a brother.

From: (Anonymous)	Date: September 20th, 2004 07:15 am (UTC)		(Link)
Re: WCCC

This is a very silly website well i have no time for pastor climate debate or wccc. My eyes and my focus as a christian are on God, upon Jesus, so this is all a little matter and nonsense.
However, I hav been to world conquerors and I personally witnessed pure evil there I saw it and heard it with my own eyes and ears. So God told me to flee that place! And I did as I was told.
All the brothers sisters who come out of wccc saying "Oh you are a failure you left wcc you are a loser in Christ"
I have this to say to their argument?brainwashing twaddle basically!
Jesus loves everyone! Especially the failures and losers and sinners and drop-outs! Read your bible people he sat on the road and broke bread with the possessed, the prostitutes. So if thats your argument Im pleased and proud to be a failure if thats what you think of people who escape Wccc! Because Jesus loves me as I am and I love Jesus! Amen.
Now, I got told by a brother all sorts of stuff about Pastor Climate after Id left of my own common sense. He said the pastor and agroup of devotees drove to his house, stole his passport and hundreds of pounds from his church collection. He said voodoo and evil was being done. That the pastor was sleeping with the women and he had another wife in London and was all crooked ways.
This fellow at first I believed he was in such a nervous breakdown mess. Now he back at Wccc and is one of the main men? Now who is the crook? Even a pig does not return to its own vomit.
So to see and know dishonesty and corruption in the house of god, but to know and return and be part of......?
Im afraid I cannot be swayed or impressed by big tacky white limos and sky tv. Wot is that? The pastor preaches tv evil corrupt of devil? then he on all the time?!
We must hav a sense of humour this is true children of God.
Seriously, I have asked wise ministers and pastors about this place. They say this thing, with religion there s always money to be made.
I hav asked and prayed to God for guidance and wisdom, the oly reason I take my time to add comment to this site this day a message I receive strongly:

God tells us in the bible all is heard and seen nothing is hidden, your right hand knows what the left is doing.even whispers in secret ina closet are heard by God."Not everyone that saith unto me Lord Lord shall enter into the Kingdom of Heaven"

"Many will say to me on that day Lord Lord have we not prophesised in thy name? and in thy name cast out devils?and in thy name done many wonderous things?
And then I will profess unto thee I never knew thee. Depart from me ye that work iniquity".

Be Blessed.

From: (Anonymous)	Date: October 29th, 2006 10:03 pm (UTC)		(Link)
Re: WCCC

you said you were told by a brother that bishop Climate sleeps with women and stole passports and hundreds of pounds, but you did not see it with your own eyes. So how can you have aconclusion about something you cant prove is true. You have an antichrist spirit just like those people in the bible who said Jesus cast out demons by demons. You need Jesus in your life

From: (Anonymous)	Date: December 30th, 2006 12:21 am (UTC)		(Link)
Re: WCCC

It's amazing to see that the same bridge that people once crossed,it's the same bridge they want to demolish.If you have the courage why don't face Bishop Climate and tell him what you know about him.You should be ashamed of yourselves instead of giving constructive critism you want to bring the man down.There are people whom we know that did dispeakable acts and bishop Climate couldn't take it as a man of God, now that you ashamed of what you did,you now intend to tell your own story, Remember,going on the offense does not make you genius, it's makes you stupid.That is the reason why you want to remain anonymous.Ever since you left WCCC what achievement have you had? Stop fighting people without cause. Some of you left WCCC because of hear say, some because your friend left the church and you also decided to leave, This proves how spiritual immature you are.