From: gerald_duck	Date: June 25th, 2003 09:56 am (UTC)		(Link)

Actually, the human rate of mortality is only about 60-70%.

i.e. About a third of all humans ever born are still alive. (-8

	From: vexen	Date: June 25th, 2003 10:40 am (UTC)		(Link)

I wasn't just talking of Human life though...

but... aside from that... is that stat true? I couldn't for the life of me come up with a guestimate of many people have existed in history!

	From: gerald_duck	Date: June 25th, 2003 10:49 am (UTC)		(Link)

It certainly seems to be true. I've heard a variety of different estimates, but that one's fairly conservative.

We've had exponential population growth since the beginning of the industrial revolution, and it's only just beginning to level off. (Each nation in turn enjoys an 'S'-shaped population boom as it becomes industrialised.)

	From: vexen	Date: June 25th, 2003 11:00 am (UTC)		(Link)

What it's saying is that (assuming 6 billion people alive now) that only 12 billion have died in history. Yet it seems that four generations (at least) all humans must die, so that looking back 4 generation 6 billion are still alive, 5/6 billion have died.

I don't know, every four generation how populated the Earth it, but it seems to imply a 60-70% growth every 100 years. Actually... I think that's possible, and I think it's higher than that (I think it is more like 100% (doubling) frequently). It might be true... wow.

I wonder if that takes into account infanticide and other things... but I guess that doesn't really make much difference due to relatively low numbers compared with 6 billion alive right now.

Cool.

	From: gerald_duck	Date: June 25th, 2003 11:15 am (UTC)		(Link)

Actually, we've had 100% population growth in the world since 1960!

Until the industrial revolution, the world's population was a fairly steady 200 million for the previous couple of millennia, and even lower before that.

	From: vexen	Date: November 13th, 2006 01:56 pm (UTC)		(Link)

I stumbled across a UN stat that 60 billion people have died, and with a pop. of 6 billion now that makes for a 60/66 mortality rate, about 91%! I now quote the stat on http://www.vexen.co.uk/life/population.html

From: panzer_rune	Date: June 25th, 2003 11:23 am (UTC)		(Link)

Actually, population growth has leveled off in Developed Nations for quite a while already due to Malthusian Preventive Checks and lower birth rates. Population is exploding in Undeveloped Nations due to industrialization that introduces new technology that reduces Positive Checks (famine, disease) but Preventive Checks (birth control, morality) are not introduced and birth rates continue to go up.

From: katminnaar	Date: June 25th, 2003 10:45 am (UTC)		(Link)

We can die in smaller ways before we experience the final death. But yes, not contemplating what Death really means might be trying to deny that inevitability. Anyone who's been told they do or may have a fatal disease probably looks on life and death a little differently after that.

Imbalance is an important point: true, there's no life without death. And as someone once said, "a man who's afraid of dying is afraid of living!"

We will not release our attachments to this world and attain Buddhist or Hindu Nirvana.
I've been doing much reading on Buddhism recently. It still smacks of denial. For all its fighting against 'ignorance,' it seems to contain an ironic element of ignorance all its own. To have to *renounce* so much of life seems a waste of it. (Refuge? From what?) I think I'd just rather die having sex. :)

The question of souls is interesting. My only comment is "who knows!" How and when will we ever know, except possibly after death?

Great article, as usual. :)

	From: vexen	Date: June 25th, 2003 10:54 am (UTC)		(Link)

I respect much of Buddhism... but... the monasticism and asceticism (despite being a Middle Way from extreme asceticism) and aims are not Human. The methods are great for the most part, intellectualism comes as part of the parcel (which is rare in religion!) and method of reducing attachments are sometimes very refreshing.

But the mythologies, the fantasy of it all - all the Hindu elements - are so out-there it's hard to take it seriously. Western Buddhism has dropped nearly all of this - or did for a time - but we are, in the West, re-learning what Buddhism is and beginning to realize it's as full of myth and nonsense as other religions (and isn't just karma & reincarnation!).

The history of Mara and the class of Asura demons is fascinating though, and follows exactly the same process as Christianity did, almost along the sime times too - a series of consolidations of spiritual forces into increasingly powerful dualistic-exlusive elements.

From: katminnaar	Date: June 25th, 2003 11:13 am (UTC)		(Link)

I respect much of it too, but have a reticence toward the extreme shunning of life in order to achieve inner peace. However, the teachings on impermanence and mental delusions are very valuable. Tantric or Tibetan Buddhism is soooo similar in its ritual to Catholicism, however. The more I learn about it all, the more I'm seeing all this myth & nonsense. However, I agree, Buddhism is much more intellectually stimulating as a *religion* than are most!

There's a book called Buddhism Without Beliefs which tries to reconstruct Buddhism for the West -- sans the karma & reincarnation beliefs. Other authors have outlined parallels between Buddhism, Christianity and other sun-god/mythical religions and they are all startling in their similarities!

Ever read anything by Ken Wilber?

	From: vexen	Date: June 25th, 2003 11:51 am (UTC)		(Link)

"Buddhism Without Beliefs" ... who is the author? I've read one, "Paganism without beliefs", which was terrible, by an esteemed Wiccan with nothing but anecdotal "evidence" for his religion (ergo: no "beliefs", just "fact").

Buddhism /without/ karma & reincarnation? A non-samsaric Buddhism can hardly be Buddhism *confused*

There are lots of similarities between the religions... Max Weber is probably the greatest single categorizor and comparer...

Ken Wilber is an unknown to me ... I might have, though - I always lose track!

From: katminnaar	Date: June 25th, 2003 01:15 pm (UTC)		(Link)

'Buddhism Without Beliefs' is by Stephen Batchelor. It's a Tricycle Book. On the front cover: "Batchelor...suggests that Buddhism jettison reincarnation and karma, thereby making possible what he calls an 'existential, therapeutic and liberating agnosticism.' -- Time Magazine" He's a former monk, actually; now he lives in England. Apparently he 'eschews' the monastic and elitist aspects of Buddhism. It's an interesting book; you might enjoy it. :)

Ken Wilber is a specialist in transpersonal psychology. He has a website here. I haven't read much of his work, but am skipping around in "Grace and Grit." I'm going to post an excerpt I find particularly interesting at my journal soon. :)

	From: vexen	Date: June 25th, 2003 01:36 pm (UTC)		(Link)

Stephen Batchelor's book does sound interesting actually, I'll keep an eye out.

What's transpersonal psychology? Psychology of relationships? I bet it's the opposite of cognitive psychology

From: katminnaar	Date: June 25th, 2003 02:53 pm (UTC)		(Link)

What's transpersonal psychology? Psychology of relationships? I bet it's the opposite of cognitive psychology
Ya got me! I have no idea. I'm only just now barely learning anything about it. :)

From: (Anonymous)	Date: June 27th, 2003 05:54 am (UTC)		(Link)
Can god be one of the alien which are more superior than humans?

I have been wondering... i think that there must be somesort of living organism out there beside earth. Maybe god is just one of the aliens that rule humans. hahahaha~ then he must be a really bad ruler.

From: panzer_rune	Date: June 25th, 2003 11:26 am (UTC)		(Link)

Have you ever written for The Black Flame?

	From: vexen	Date: June 25th, 2003 11:54 am (UTC)		(Link)

No, but I'm in both issues of Rule Satannia :-)

From: panzer_rune	Date: June 25th, 2003 11:56 am (UTC)		(Link)
Re:

Awesome, I'll make sure to pick them up :)

	From: megadog	Date: June 25th, 2003 11:47 am (UTC)		(Link)
	The Joy of Death.

Must confess, I take some comfort from my own mortality. I like the idea of finality. Death doesn't really hold any fear for me - indeed, I find the whole idea of eternal life as being seriously disturbing. If there is any sort of reincarnation, and I'm somehow reincarnated without prior consent, I'll be heading straight for the complaints-desk.

	From: vexen	Date: June 25th, 2003 12:11 pm (UTC)		(Link)
	Re: The Joy of Death.

"Hello, this is Karma Complaints, if you've rung this number before and have a Incarnation DNA Number, please press 1."