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Page 1 of 3
[1] [2] [3]
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Cheers Mate! Do you remember me? Its Catatonic from uk_goffs. I sent you an e-mail but since you haven't answered, I'll just be a fucking nag and get to you through LJ. How's everything? Lovely I hope, because things aren't going all that bloody good down here. For over six months or so, the lads down here at CR-Gothic (Costa Rica Gothic) had been planning and organizing and putting together what would be the first Gothic Art/Music/Literature Festival ever in this country. I was to take place at an abandoned Sanitarium up in the cold mountains of a region called "Whitelands of Prussia", translated of course. The activity was supposed to take place today, and it was going to last up till tomorrow afty. So happens that on wednesday the bishop from the local parrish informed the people of this rural community that a "Satanist Cult" was taking place near them and that their lives and souls where in danger (let me mention that the activity had no religious purpose at all, and much less had anything to do with satanism, paganism, wicca, or whatever else argument he could bring up). The community is mostly catholic and they all supported this man when he motioned them to protest against this "evil" thing that was infesting their peaceful community. The main organizer of the festival, a friend of mine, decided to cancel the event and lose the whole investment, because he felt that there might be some kind of violent intervention on behalf of the community while the event took place. We did not cancel because of a legal issue or anything of the matter, but simply because we feared that someone could get hurt if they tried to interrupt our festival (knowing how catholics tend to get a wee bit violent when they want something gone). Now, we are pissed right off our fucking bollocks, and we intend to sue this wanker and the Catholic Church in this country for taking action against something without previously consulting with the organizers of the activity, for labeling us as something we are not, lying to his people, and for making us lose a lot of money, time and sweat. Our first idea is that everyone who was going to the festival, sign a document to show their support for a legal action against the church and more specifically, the plank from that parrish.
Now, I know you know shite (I hope), and I was wondering if I could have your opinion on the whole situation, maybe even a scrap of advice. I know this is the kind of thing that you must just find to be right up your alley.
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From: ![[info]](http://l-stat.livejournal.com/img/userinfo.gif) vexen |
Date: August 2nd, 2003 01:04 pm (UTC) |
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Thought inspiring!
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You are right about (1) and (2), I suppose I definately need to add a "sensible refrain" to both of them adding the very likely possibility, one which I think to be totally sensible, of a morally-irrelevant God, whose plans have nothing to do with either suffering or pleasure, and that we, Human Beings, are simply viewing things wrongly, or are simply not really part of a great scheme of creation.
I.e., it could be God's intent to create supercomputers to play chess with, and we're merely a tool, therefore our suffering is irrelevent to the greater good.
Actually the possibilities are pretty much endless, I should just, perhaps, add the text "If the only gods that exist are "benevolent" or "malevolent", then the latter is more likely..."
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hmmm, interesting...although I would incline more towards the idea that if there were a god (and I'm against the belief that there is) then it would be more a neutral, neither good nor evil. More of a laissez-faire bloke. I mean, sure there is a lot of pain, death, suffering, and an endless list of horrid things...but there is also and endless list of moments of joy and happiness, of warm lovely feelings. So, if there is a god, I don't think he/she would have any part whatsoever in evil or good, it just created things and let them happen. On the other hand, if he did have some sort of determination...he would be a bloody sadist, creating sides to war against eachother, and striking thoughts of pain, vengance and thirst for blood in people. But the existence of a conscious god is near impossible. Could a conscious person really allow all this? Now, seeing things from the natural point of view, in nature there is always a bigger fish eating a little fish. There is always something that will destroy another. And so it is in humans, because we are a part of nature. Because we developed dexterity and "reason", we have come to the point where we simply use this abilities to extend those natural carnal, animal instincts. I believe its just all a part of nature, no participation of a god whatsoever...but if there was one, he would either be a sadist, or a neutral
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| From: (Anonymous) |
Date: September 13th, 2003 01:38 pm (UTC) |
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Spiritual forces "do" exist.
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"Saying one set of things to one group of people; appearing as a multitude of gods to others, and appearing not at all to many."
I believe that the so-called "spirits of Satan" are the lost souls of those evil ones who have perished. Every living thing on this planet has its own spirit/soul, and can attach itself positively or negatively to other spirits after death. How do you think the spirit of Jesus Christ lives on? It is a God spirit, that goes into the souls of those people who accept it, adding strength, vigor, and regeneration. Maybe the spirit of Jesus was embedded with an even stronger spirit when he was alive, and that is why he called him "His father", or our traditional "God". Satanic spirits, and God spirits alike, may show themselves visibly, but solely in the mind of the person who has them. That is why a group of people may see or witness something from the same spirit, but always differently than everyone else, and not from that spirit itself, but from that which has embedded itself with their spirits.
That's what I believe after examining your essays, and the personal experiences of myself and my wife here in Toronto, Canada. Death is still and always permanent, but the tiny spark that was created when you were born, and developed and changed throughout the course of your life never dies. And by one spirit connecting with those of others whose bodies are alive, similarly connects with their minds also. This can produce incredible surreal experiences for some individuals, and possibly even reality-based effects, though I have never witnessed this, and doubt its existence.
P.S. Your writings are very intellectually fullfilling. Keep up the great work!
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From: vexen |
Date: November 19th, 2003 11:26 am (UTC) |
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Re: LIER
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The word is "liar", and yes, I think you've been thoroughly tricked and lied to. If there is a god, it is evil, and has tricked you, because you are gullible, into thinking it's good. You're just a sheep, being herded by a shephard who intends on devouring you alive. If I was you, I'd be skeptical of what you believe.
You accuse me of worshipping another God... HOW MANY gods do you think exist???
If I do not believe in your God (so far you haven't actually told me what God(s) you believe in, so I don't know), then shouldn't your God get off it's backside and introduce itself to me? Or is it going to "burn me in hell" simply because I'm too clever to fall for pathetic organized religion?
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| From: (Anonymous) |
Date: December 1st, 2003 08:45 am (UTC) |
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God is Evil
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I believe that God is cruel, uncaring, and hateful. I believe that by all of the pain that God causes everyone, he is not someone who should be loved or worshipped. I believe that God is not good and never answers anyone's prayers. I believe that God shows everyday that he does not care about anyone by his actions. There are many people in this world who are either atheists or hate God. Based on so many heartaches, heartbreaks, misery and devastation that occurs in so many people's lives, they have every right to feel that way. I believe, as so many others do, that God, religion and the bible are a waste of time and are extremely offensive. I believe that God is cruel and uncaring. Nobody asks to have cancer, heart disease, alzheimer's disease, or any of the other devastating diseases. I believe that God murders people with those diseases, everyday. I believe that God lets terrible, cruel, devastating things happen to people when he has the power to prevent it but choses not to. Based on those beliefs, I believe that that God does not love. I believe that God should be condemned, not praised. I believe that God is what total and complete evil is all about. For the extreme pain that he causes me and so many others, I will always hate him. I am now and always will be 100% secure in my beleifs against God and his meanness and his cruelty.
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| From: (Anonymous) |
Date: June 20th, 2004 06:31 am (UTC) |
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Re: God is Evil
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okay..ibelieve that everyone is entitled to have there own say.. i dont know much about the bible as i am a muslim, but i just wanna tell you my point of view on this issue. PLEASE READ THIS, DONT DISCARD IT JUST BECAUSE I AM A MUSLIM. basically it all comes down to freewill. many people in the world dont care about god, or obey him...if we dont want god in our life, then why do we ask him for help at the last minute, or whenever something bad is about to happen. for example; say you have a very good friend, but you dont talk or listen to that friend, wont the friend feel hurt if his/her's friend isnt replying to them? how would you feel? god is like that friend, he doesnt want anything in return.. just slightt obedience. now back to freewill..im sure you must have heard this many times WE REAP WHAT WE SOW. it is true. we have freewill from god, he lets us do whatever we want, if something bad happens then (out of our own accord) then why do we blame god? its not god's fault. its ours. now...about cancer etc...god doesnt cause this, science now tells us that it is either passed on from generation to generation, or a few factors like radiation cause it. if god isnt causing this, then why do we blame him? now..you must be thinking that okay, he doesnt cause it..so if he is a good god why doesnt he help? the answer to this is that nobody wants him to. nobody goes to church or mosques regularly. nobody cares about god. then why, when someone gets a disease, or something bad happens, why does everyone blame god, and prays to him at the last minute? think of it like this...if your friend did the same to you (whatever people do to god like hating him etc) would you help her/him if they asked at the last minute? i know that i wouldnt. i hope this reply has helped to to change your mind about god. maybe if you pray REGULARLY then him will definitly help. there is a little saying that goes 'when you pray to god, he will always take time to answer that prayer, but if it is legitimate, then he will definitly answer'. i dont want you to think that i am converting you. im not. i just want you to see the other side of the coin. i am sorry if i sounded offensive...i didnt mean to.
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| From: (Anonymous) |
Date: December 12th, 2003 09:50 pm (UTC) |
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There is no evil god or is there a good god.
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The basic logic to there being an evil god, is that there is a god at all.
If you start with the assumption that there is no god, and that we evolved from random events, it tends to make more sense.
There is no good or evil, but just what 'is'. There's beauty in a sunset, in newborn creatures, in music, etc., and there's evil in senseless murders, cancers, and violence, again...etc. It a subjective reaction to the world that 'is'.
What we have is a world that we must adjust to. A world that says that in order for you to survive, you must adjust to what 'is'. There is no evil god who punishes us or is there a good god we rewards our pleas for help.
We are the results of an impartial 'all this is'.
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| From: (Anonymous) |
Date: December 19th, 2003 09:22 am (UTC) |
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Don't Read This
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Hmmm. I am not in any organized religion, "evil" or "good". I have studied many in pursuit of "God". I have come to find that there is a God, but he is more of an observer than a participator. We are responsible for our own lives, not him. WE decided before we even got here, what challenges we were to face. WE decided what we would be confronted with, and here we decide what to do with it.
Life is not about "EVIL" VS. "GOOD"; because there is really no such thing. These concepts were created by men thousands of years ago in hopes for power over the community.
These men created these concepts to "scare people into church". In order to have power and recieve much money from the church-goers.
So you say, what about murder, rape and stealing? Well the majority would say ---> evil; I would say waste of time that could be spent making progress in your life (and also hurtful to others; which in turn slows the progress in their life).
So my point is, why are you focusing on "AN EVIL GOD"? Why not spend the time focusing on your life and how you can grow into a better person?
That is what life is....it's really simple, we just have to make it very complicated......
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From: ithryn |
Date: December 30th, 2003 09:04 pm (UTC) |
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Interesting arguments. I suppose I'm only posing a negative criticism here, but you did make some thoughtful points that I'll continue to consider, especially the 'likelihood when considering world history' notion.
Argument 1.1, by the second sentence has forgotten the free will that it proposed in the first. If God is all-good and has free will, and creates a being that is not God, and gives it free will, obviously this new being can turn its free will towards evil. That's the essence of free will.
For 1.3, if life were truly built on death, wouldn't life eventually drive itself into extinction? Evolution would work in reverse: new, higher organisms, requiring more energy derived from death, would cause more death. Somehow the balance has worked out, however, and life is sustained. Anyway, it may certainly seem, in ignorance, that it's odd that things must eat other things to survive; but I'm not sure that this points to a malevolent God. After all, autotrophic organisms (like plants) and heterotrophic organisms (such as ourselves) live in fairly perfect symbiosis. We can't survive without ingesting the energy that comes only from plants. This is true. But plants can't survive without the waste products of our cellular respiration. The chemical equation for photosynthesis is the mirror-reverse of the chemical equation for cellular respiration. It seems more like a complex and masterful coordination than anything sinister. What you're seriously suggesting, perhaps, is that a good God would only create photosynthesizing life forms, because you find it horrible that we must eat plants to survive. But what if plants were partly intended to be heterotrophic food? What if there's no morality attached to the death of a plant?
Your "sensible refrain", 2.3, is only correct that physical constructs in this universe our temporary; and living things being physical, they too are temporary. I don't see how this is disharmony, per se, and I don't see how this means life is incidental to the universe. I'm not even sure what you mean by that phrase, because everything in the universe is incidental to everything else. The nonliving universe no more exists to produce life than life exists to produce new arrangements of nonliving matter.
3, in general, assumes that God is hidden, which seems arguable in light of our free will and our non-omniscience. It's certainly possible that God is everywhere, to the extent that we can't find a particular object called God; or that over thousands of generations we've raised ourselves to avoid seeing it.
In 4, the oft-presented argument that God cannot choose evil, it's being forgotten that a morally perfect being, by definition, will do whatever is morally perfect; such a definition cannot tell us whether he wills this or not. For all we know, he may just continually choose never to do evil, which seems likely if evil is incompatible with his will. You may as well say that the fact that I did a particular thing is indicative of the fact that I could do nothing other than it. That's the eloquent assumptive fallacy of determinism.
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From: vexen |
Date: December 31st, 2003 12:48 am (UTC) |
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Hi, thanks for playing... note that at the moment I'm spending extended periods offline due to work. I'm online until Sunday ATM. 1.1. No, the first sentance says "God has free will AND is perfectly good", by implication a "perfectly good" being does not create evil, therefore if God was good, it would create beings that were also perfectly good AND had free will. ALSO, I do not agree that the essence of free will is only to choose between good and evil. There are millions of choices in life, and I don't agree that results of some of these choices have to be "evil" in order for choices, free will, to exist. Free will is the ability to choose between different goods just as much as it would be to "choose" good or evil. Also note that much of the time evil, suffering, is an unintended result of our actions. If "evil" was a result of free will, or tied to it, it wouldn't occur accidentally. I think it's clear that free will does not require evil, nor that evil is only a result of free will. Natural evil, accidental evil, etc, are all big clues that free will is only another natural form of evil, piled on top of already-existing created evil. All this means that to say that god only created evil in order to sustain free will must be wrong - there is plenty of evil whether or not it's been created as a result of free will! I've got a (hopefully) fuller set of pages on the problem of evil and failture of free will theodicy, an intro is here: http://www.vexen.co.uk/religion/theodicy_freewill.html |
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| From: (Anonymous) |
Date: March 8th, 2004 05:52 am (UTC) |
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catch 22
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Just buttin' in here.
Please read this to the end.
Seems we're all pretty much on the same page.
I think there's no god - never was - never will be. No further convincing needed.
But my point is; I have sort of a different view as to where all this god shit comes from in our species.
I think that all people, and most of their mind's function, was designed around everyday functioning and control within ones environment. Ex: the running deer will keep going in the direction he's going more or less and will slow down or corner within a certain ability range. And if he's coming toward me,, and I manage to get out of the way, I'll live. And if I have enough stealth and skill, I'll eat. And if I tell a joke people will laugh. bla bla bla.
Evolution has designed our minds to understand the logic/properties of our everyday environment. This, to us "is" logic.
Then, throughout the better part of evolution, there was the absolutely un-understandable (moon stars, sun, lightning etc.) and uncontrollable (death of other, etc.).
I believe that there is a part of the mind whose function it is, is to "accept". And, to somehow make peace with the rest of the mind which gets all bent out of shape when things don't go as it puts it's best effort into determining the outcome. People get angry with each other over which way the toilet paper is installed, but don't start throwing punches at the sky when a rainy day messes up big plans. They accept certain uncontrollables. This "accept" part of the mind is open to about any explanation for the unexplainables, and the topic is laid to rest. It is off limits for the logical part of the mind to continually question or be skeptical. The more consistent the story, the easier things go. Through most of evolution, extremely diverse stories (religions) didn't cross paths so much. Life was sorta blissful in that way. But the world is past those times. I turns out that the introduction of another story, is not within the means of the mind to handle well. Try as it might, the "accept" part of the mind hasn't that kind of a relationship with the logical side (particularly beyond childhood). The logical side easily catches the conflict. Turmoil is the result. There's really only a few ways to go once an alternative story is introduced, 1. crazy (snuff the messenger and all other like him) 2. ignorant (you got too much invested in your story, ain't gonna give it up now) 3. logic prevails (both stories can't be true, likely neither is, and move on).
Next, we gotta throw science into the equation. The logical side pretty much can't help but bite on something which it has the capacity to analyze as logical. Over a few generations, science has pretty much logical-ized the better share of what used to be the "accept" part's job. Pretty much every multi-god religion dried up with it. But, unfortunately, there's one thing science hasn't, and might never, be able to prove. And to add misery to that, it happens to concern perhaps the strongest instinct - that of fear and avoidance of death. Science can't explain what happens to the "you", after you die. Naturally, people eagerly eat up the first story of an afterlife. An overlooking/guiding being - engineered up by some thoughtful people, seems to have been the natural direction.
So what we've got is a world full of people being exposed to alternative stories. Most of them taking paths 1. or 2. above. And that sucks.
I don't see any way around it.
Most minds do not seem to be equipped to deal with death as final for it. Science has everything else nailed down. Everybody is exposed to more than one story. The credibility of any story is being squeezed. But people are too afraid of finality and too invested in their story to give it up.
People will kill or be killed, versus upend that relationship in their mind. You can be disowned by family or even friends whom have always respected you highly, with a single mention of anything which even slightly threatens their lie. Normally functioning minds are not willing to entertain any other lie - much less, the truth.
Where do we go from here?
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| From: (Anonymous) |
Date: April 1st, 2004 07:01 am (UTC) |
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"The more we believe that God hurts only to heal, the less we can believe that there is any use in begging for tenderness. A cruel man might be bribed - might grow tired of his vile sport - might have a tempoaray fit of mercy, as alcoholics have fits of sobriety. But suppose the surgeon that what you are up against is a surgeon whose intentions are wholly good. The kinder and more conscientious he is, the more inexorably he will go on cutting. If he yielded to your entreaties, if he stopped before the operation was complete, all the pain up to that point would have been useless. But is it credible that such extremities of torture are necessary for us? Well, take your choice. The tortures occur. If they are unnecessary then there is no God or a bad one. If there is a good God, then these tortures are necessary. For no even moderately good being could possibly inflict or permit them if they weren't. Either way, we're for it.
What do people mean when they say, 'I am not afraid of God because I know He is good'? Have they never been to the dentist?" C.S. Lewis.
I read your views with interest, but I think you've overlooked the fact that if God took away all the evil in the world He would be taking away our free will (for it is the free will of humans which causes such things). Without free will, love cannot exist. God wanted love to exist so He could have a relationship with us - otherwise we would be zombies. And you're right that an evil god rules this world - the prince of this world is Satan - and it is our sin which causes so much death. What is it inside you that means you yearn for love, happiness, stability and peace? A coincidendal mix of atoms and chemicals reactions in your brain? You recognise that life is temporary, and yes, death wins in the physical because Satan enticed the first man to sin - death and the shedding of blood is the only antonement for this - hence the death of Jesus atoning for us. That's the whole point - there's a much better life out their after this crappy one if you accept this free gift. Or you can go on living and trying in vain to be competely happy and satisfied in the percieved knowledged that this is it. "Eternity is written in the hearts of men" - that's why we yearn for something better - because there is.
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From: vexen |
Date: April 8th, 2004 05:42 am (UTC) |
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"I think you've overlooked the fact that if God took away all the evil in the world He would be taking away our free will (for it is the free will of humans which causes such things). Without free will, love cannot exist." http://www.vexen.co.uk/religion/heaven.htmlSo God, in Heaven, where there is no Free Will, has no love? If angels, the trinity, etc, exist in Heaven where there is no evil, then it means then it IS possible to have free will and yet there be no evil. In general the "free will theodicy" (which is what you've alluded to) doesn't work, for multiple reasons, one of which is that the concept of having free will simply doesn't require "evil" and "good" to be the only element of choice. http://www.vexen.co.uk/religion/theodicy_freewill.html |
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listen bible-toter ... be not quick to damn.
Sheesh, you give Christians a bad image ... and we are supposed to be humane. Shame on you for damning Vexen Crabtree. You should be wary that your salvation ISN'T 100% guaranteed, and by how you're quick to damn, you should know that your good intentions can pave your way to hell.
I think you should look at Jesus Christ's mercy toward the adulterous woman, the lepers, and the Roman Centurion as example of humane treatment. And let Vexen Crabtree decide for himself if he ever should consider god to be there for him.
YOU - mister man [or person of some sort] - should know that with freewill comes responsibility of choice. God gave humankind the right to chose, and to not be as unthinking and boring robots. So, overall, you can be thankful that you're in a wonderful relationship with god BUT don't be so sure that Vexen Crabtree and others like him are out of god's mercy and grace. In fact, there are Christians who are damn well in hell because they were 'pharic', or heartless followers of religious law.
YOU think you're going to heaven because YOU are a bible-toter? ... because YOU know Jesus Christ? Well, you should watch how you show yourself as an 'Ambassador of Christ' toward non-Christians, and so it is best that you know yourself and how you look like to non-Christians.
Did Paul of Tarsus go around and condemn those he wished to inspire and tell the 'good news' to? ... no, he didn't. It was only AFTER Paul had established church communities that Paul admonished and chastised those people for being adulterous, diseased and without god. So, mister man, you leave Vexen Crabtree and his like alone and focus on presenting yourself less like vinegar and more like honey.
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Ahhh, Vexen ... whoa ... you certainly have a profile that gets people's attention.
Man, I've been damned to hell so many times by different people. For instance, my ex-boyfriend from highschool has damned me to hell because I cheated on him (and that is simply put).
I've been damned to hell because I don't really know and listen to 'Jesus Christ'. Ha ha ha, and I've been damned to hell because I'm Roman Catholic.
Typically, I consign myself to being quiet but mighty.
I, overall, have heard many stories of people complaining about other people ... and I have heard most theories of how to make a world a better place or to damn everyone to hell.
Here are some stories (complaints, and such) I have heard over the years. And I will list these statements from most recent to the stuff I've heard a while ago:
- in the world there are 6 billion people, and each of us carries a 'sword' ... which means that people are afraid, mistrusting and cruel to one another.
***now the reasoning behind this statement is the following, and I will be saying this in my own words***
< If everyone will put down their 'sword' then the world will be a better place in that there will be no fear, no suspicion, and no cruelty. >
***and there is an idea that people have a nature to be cruel ... so overall, I don't know if 'world peace' - to disarm the world - is the smart thing to do since there is the idea that aliens can be as violent as we are and then invade our complacent world if ever we became overall peaceable. Also, nature - in its own right - is really quite violent.***
- people are assholes ... people are pathetic ... people are stupid. Groups of people are dumb but individuals are smart.
***Now the above irritates me to no end, and so I will say that 'society' isn't dumb but the individuals can be arseholes to begin with. So, groups of people are comprised of individuals, which means that a cruel and stupid society is comprised of cruel and stupid individuals.***
- Some people have to be janitors ... and does anyone want to be a janitor? No, but some people are less better than others.
*** 'Sigh' ... yes, some people can be stupid and be stuck in dead end jobs BUT some jobs are under-rated and unappreciated. So you make the judgment call for yourself. ***
- I don't discriminate - I hate everybody.
***I guess you can be a 'misanthrop' and despise everyone --- but you would be a sad and lonely hermit if you did that***
So far, I've heard nothing really of good news ... hmmm, I guess we need to laugh more.
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I've read most of the conversations here ... and I say *most* because there is a lot!
Like I said before, Vexen, you have a high profile -- well not anymore since you're largely offline.
Anyway, I have a point to make:
In one of the threads, I came across Empiress's idea that theology students should read Science Fiction. And I think that's a marvelous idea!
So Vexen, if you ever could scrounge the time, please check out the following book:
"BIOS" by Robert Charles Wilson (who is a Canadian Author).
< the above book is a little-known precious gem of Science Fiction, which I've recently read >
***and to intrigue you, I'll give you the outline of the story***
The story describes a planet named 'Isis', which proves to be lethal to human life (earthling life) as the human explorers soon discover. And not only does the planet 'Isis' prove to be lethal -- meaning that it's BIOS are toxic to human life -- but the planet also has an overall consciousness.
More so, Isis' biosphere comprises a neural network (because the total of its organisms are spiritually connected), which proves to be comparable to human consciousness but its consciousness is much bigger than that of a human being ... which means the planet has a consciousness in proportion to the size of it (which is pretty big compared to that of a human). And the best analogy the book offers to describe Isis' self-awareness is that of neural connections the human brain is comprised of. So imagine the life on Isis without consciousness of their own but their overall community is the consciousness of Isis. Each organism is like a neural cell that is then connected to others, which finally comprise the thinking mind of Isis. [You can basically think Isis follows the GAIA theory.] Also, Isis proves to not intend to be hostile toward human beings ... but it's immune system is reacting to foreign bodies coming into its biosphere (meaning that: *humans are unintentionally treated like a "virus"*). [Well, I sometimes associate humans to that of a virus -- and I thank Agent Smith (from the Matrix) for that analogy -- so I'm not surprised that a planet's biosphere would react to human exploration as would our own immune systems to that of viruses bugging us.]
And to also let you know...
I bought "BIOS" for $5.32 (originally priced $4.99 without tax) when the book's first price was $32.58 in Canadian dollars. So, I'm going to guess that in the UK, the book would be a real steal.
Please give it a chance :-)
Well, if you do ever get the opportunity to check out "BIOS" I hope you'll have a good read just like I did.
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| From: (Anonymous) |
Date: June 20th, 2004 06:13 am (UTC) |
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Evil god vs Good god
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i read ur pages about an 'evil god'. me... well im not really religious, but i think logic comes into this argument a lot.. firstly we must remeber that god is just/fair, how do i know this, well, god did give us freewill didn't he? if we have freewill, this means that we can do what ever we want to; and god wont stop us. i found that your article lacked this concept of freewill. if god was evil, then y would he give us freewill? im sure that u know that gevil people klike to control; they are power hungry, but your article has been proved wrong; as god gave us freewill to believe in what ever we want to believe in. so i can now conclude that god is not evil, god is a good, and just god.
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Actually he claimed that if there is a God he is a malign thug, so there is no contradiction.
And when judging whether or not we have free will you should picture those children in foreign countries that are stricken with famine and a disease. Is it a path they chose? No, children are born into broken home, populations are hit by genocide, all as a result from what your God does.
If you have read the Bible yourself you should be able to tell that he is no happy camper, go ahead, read through it and see how many deaths have been caused by him. Too many for me to count. For example, the greatest of them all was the flooding of the Earth. Yes I have heard the Christian reasoning for such an atrocity. The world committed a sin. One that apparently warrented their death. So are you saying every man, women, child, baby, fetus, and animal did something so bad as to deprive themselves of life? And God did not just kill them, but he also threw them in the eternal flames of Hell. How loving.
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