Vexen Crabtree 2015

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Sociology, Theology, Anti-Religion and Exploration: Forcing Humanity Forwards


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Vexen Crabtree 2015
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What is "True Satanism"?

What is "True Satanism"?

What are people saying when they claim that others are not "True" Satanists? What is a True Satanist? What is "traditional" or "real" Satanism compared to LaVey Satanism?
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I could be mistaken, but it's my belief that "true" satanists (as in those who are the root cause in what then became the domino affect to create what we see today in modern and various forms of satanism) are the Illuminati(scientists who claim to posses the 'light' of knowledge).
It's a problem in linguistics.

Lucifer means (i believe, and as you probably already know) Son of Light (or in the least something to do with the light). The name Lucifer was associated with the devil due to some unfortunate mistranslation in the
bible.

"How art thou fallen from Heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning."

Originally applying to Jesus but St. Jerome also applies the name Lucifer to Satan when writing his comments about Luke, 10, 18:

"I beheld Satan as lightning fall from Heaven."

Luficer and Satan therefore became synomomous (satan/shaetan, as you probably know, meaning "opposer")

When the church became aware of the people who called themselves the Illuminati, the church then dubbed them as Satanists (opposers of the church, due to their scientific significance, and because of the coincidence of their name.)

Also, the devil displayed within the first testeament was simply a "tester of faith". He was still a servant of God whose position was merely to complicate the minds of man in order to see where their true loyalties lied. As christianithy became more evolved, however, he was being more represented as evil, mischevious, and less a servant of God. This applies also to his demons/minions.
anyway, my thoughts :-)

-- an intrigued passerby

Illuminati:
They'd be gnostics of some kind, but I think it's completely wrong to call them "Satanists" or even "Satanic", although they share some qualities with all sub groups.

I agree with your history of "Lucifer", and have a in depth page on that very topic:
http://www.dpjs.co.uk/lucifer.html

Christianity:
The Christians do indeed call the Illumaniti devil worshippers (not sure they ever used the word "Satanist" though), but, they DO call EVERYONE that historically, including all "Pagans", Native Americans, Arabs, Hindus, etc, and I don't think that because some Christians view non-Christians (even atheists) as devil worshippers means that it is actually correct to call them devil worshippers! It isn't, but such was the short-sighted nature of Christianity.

I agree that in the OT the Devil was clearly an agent of God, who only acted on permission of God and who asked God for permission to act before it acted. I think the literalist Christians broke this concept and formed, in the 1st/2nd century, a belief in a literal Satan. This Satan reached it's heights of strength in Medieval times when Christianity verged on dualism at times, but since Protestant Christianity has shrivelled in importance to an almost irrelevant superfluous part of normal Christianity. (Normal means: Not American style evangelical Christianity).

Your view of Christianity (Anonymous) Expand
Dont we have a bit of an
oxymoron here in true satanism?
I mean even from the point of view of
people who relate to the idea of
themselves as being satanists...
could be wrong not something Ive thought
a lot about, I mean read Huysmans and so on
but...
You know in a way Charles Williams in
War in Heaven gives three distinct types
in the characters of Gregory,was it?,
wbo desires sacrifice and the god of
sacrifice, human sacrifice though it is in
this case, and Manasses who desires
destruction of what is... and then the
third who seems a Greek or perhaps some
older race(Atlantean?) who desires
and hopes for nothing at all. On this
scale and from the perspective of the
other side, the first is the most human
and "with him agreement will be made"
and the last the least human...

Re: initial problem

Atlantean? (maybe, I don't know Charles Williams)
Desiring nothing at all has got to definately be the least human... it's unimaginable. Yet, it is the Tao!

Manasses:
In popular culture horror movies and cheap films, often the evil bad guy would be one who wants to destroy what is. Once it was said that even angels, destroyed with pity for suffering Humans, set out to destroy the world. Destruction to end pain... that's more human.

But not preferable to creating, though!

But although popular culture (through horror movies) might attribute such a desire to Satanists, none of the main bodies of Satanists (LaVey, FCoS, Setian, etc) would entertain it.


wbo (sp?)
Is that Human sacrifice of the self, or of others? A Satanist might be said to self-sacrifice to the self, to give this life meaning in the face of the incomprehensibility of the meaning of life. "Indulgence!" is the keyword, a self-sacrifice at the expense of the other term LaVey used, "spiritual pipe dreams!".


Satanists are a funny bunch... and given the individualism that pervades the left hand path, there are many more schisms and divisions than within most other religions. (But as it's mostly a disorganized religion, the differences are (mostly) not destructive).

It's always so refreshing to read your essays!

I don't know, maybe I'm just getting a bad attitude toward most *religion* (the big three, anyway). I am so fucking sick and tired of feeling like I have to be kind and apologetic to Christians or believers who are more than happy to step on MY toes and shove their damn ideological crap down MY throat! I think I've been exposed to too much of it most of my life. I'm seeing that the biggest evils are really ignorance and stupidity, but I feel I'm up against both almost everywhere I go, and it's disgusting me. I almost want to move to another country!

...which then makes me feel that I'm just not tolerant enough and I need more education. ::sigh:: So then, I come and read your pages and learn something and then I don't feel quite as bad. ;) I don't know why this theological struggle is such a thorn in my side, but it has been for several years. I keep wondering when it's going to end! I'm always stuck between being highly skeptical and not believing anything, to wanting to be open-minded, to then seeing religion used as a crutch and as something that shuts off people's intellect, and I get disgusted all over again. Especially when religion is the backbone of certain wars and other social ills. I'm just not sure the *good* religion does outweighs the *bad.* Sometimes I agree with what Mao Tse-Tung said, "Religion is poison." And I'm surrounded by it, and then all I can say in my exasperation is (pardon me, but) FUUUUUUUCK.

Oh, but I guess I should just go read the article now. ;)

You know, after reading that comment, now it just looks dumb! *L*

Anyway, uh... I like your icon. ;)

Thank you

(Anonymous)
Hi Being a christian i do believe in God however i found your site very useful as it helped me get a better understanding of your religion it has helped me become a wider minded person, and helped me consider others view points

G (15)

JUST READ THIS UN IMPORTANT MESSAGE(IF U CAN)

(Anonymous)
VEXEN IS SOOOO HOT.....

Interestingly enough, I have that same picture.

But thats not the point. The point is, I think any group of Satanists holding up and championing the ideas in the Satanic Bible are Satanists. The thing about Satanism is, everybody will change it who comes into contact with it. Everybody will have a different view. The stupid thing is, not a lot of Satanists realize this. They accept individuality, but don't realize that this will prompt others to have different ideas and opinions. I think LaVey realized this would happen. I don't think he meant for the bickering that has gone on to go on (Like Zeena Shreck's Legend and Reality. It doesn't matter. She had a vendetta and all her rambling about her dad add up to Bullshit.) Did he not warn that Christians do this all the time? And Reiterate it in the Satanic Rituals?


Lucifer - or- Satan???

(Anonymous)
I have not done much indepth studying on this subject, although I have always been interested in other points of view, other faiths than the one I have been raised in, etc. My parents never felt threatened by those who "think outside the box", in fact, they encouraged it. This, I'm sure, may be considered a stupid question, and is I'm sure, very basic. Here goes - What is the difference between Satan and Lucifer? One source I ran into said that there was a technical difference but never elaborated. Could someone help me out? I'd like to have the correct information. I'll check back in a few days. Thanks a lot, Merri B.

Re: Lucifer - or- Satan???

http://www.dpjs.co.uk/lucifer.html explains the 'technical' differences between Lucifer and Satan in ancient history, and also explains what 'Lucifer' as a concept means to Satanists.

Satan is Love

(Anonymous)
I grew up memorizing the bible. That is what taught me that Satan is Love.
God is icky. I like pain.

Re: Satan is Love

(Anonymous)
This is the dumbest crap I've ever read. Devil worshippers, satanists, whatever you call yourselves, get a life for Pete's sake!

This is by far my favorite site to read. And Vexen is Hot.

What is "True Satanism"?

(Anonymous)
If you do not worship a god named satan you are not a satanist.

Re: What is "True Satanism"?

Who do Buddhists worship?

Who do Taoists worship?

Do Hindus worship a god called Hindu?

Your comparison is ignorant.

Perhaps you think communists worship communes?

The Dao of Taoists, the Buddha of Buddhists, the Satan of Satanists, and the communal good of communists: none of them are gods, yet, they still have descriptive words to describe their adherents. They are all ideals, philosophical points of inspiration so great that they affect peoples' whole lives (as religion tends to do).

Given all these comparison I have thought of in less than a minute, perhaps you could do well to think more before you speak.

Edited at 2008-01-27 06:44 pm (UTC)

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