Vexen Crabtree's Live Journal - Obnoxious Regimes

04:54 am November 15th, 2003




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			Vexen Crabtree's Live Journal - Obnoxious Regimes Sociology, Theology, Anti-Religion and Exploration: Forcing Humanity Forwards

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	Obnoxious Regimes
	USA support of Obnoxious Regimes Part of my set of pages on "Why do people hate the USA?", it concludes: "In 2002 the USA returned to Afghanistan to kill and destroy the Taliban under the lead of Mullah Mohammed Omar, and the Al-Qaeda under the lead of Osama Bin Laden (who the USA called a 'freedom fighter' in the 1980s, but a "terrorist" now, however his actions haven't changed, only their target). In 2003 the USA also returned to Iraq to destroy Saddam Hussein. Returning to Cuba, the USA has fought Fidel Castro and in Vietnam it fought 'Ho Chi Minh and his successors'. The single most outstanding thing that all of these enemies have in common is that they were created by American interventionism in the first place. The result of all these USA borne monsters has been heavy oppression of the people and widespread resentment of the USA. During the Bosnian war (1992-95) multiple Islamic militants were similarly supported, trained and armed the Nicaragua terrorists, amongst other varied and colourful enemies of humanity for various reasons; and still, the thing they all have in common is that inhumanity reigned and monsters were created. [...] Winston Churchill said, "However beautiful the strategy, you should occasionally look at the results..." and this virtual truism should perhaps should inform the greatest question the world should ask: What IS the United States after that justifies such terrible results? [...] Disclaimer! - the USA is not alone in this behaviour. All countries have succumbed to the same unfortunate tactics as the USA from time to time and I am not saying that the USA is unique in it's misadventures. What I am saying, simply, that the extent to which the USA has engaged in these practices has caused a widespread hatred of the USA amongst the populaces of the countries that have suffered from these regimes. Tags: politics, usa Current Mood: energetic Listening To: "Kiss the Goat" by Electric Hellfire Club

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	Comments

	From: hiddenpaw	Date: November 15th, 2003 03:26 am (UTC)		(Link)

The loggical conclution of this is that in all these cases either America or a former allie of america has changed side.

Either way it would be a reasonable conclution to assume that in each of these cases america has realised it has in the past made a mistake and found it neassersary to take action to rectifie that mistake.
That one has made a mistake in the past and is now having to act to fix that mistake does not mean that ones current action is it's self a mistake of wrong especialy since it is in effect a different regime in control now.
Of course the question can be asked weather they were wrong then or now. both would seem illogical.
Of couse when one is fixing ones mistakes most people would not go round triumphantly shouting how great they are for doing it, but mearly confessing the sins of the past and getting on with ones pennance in a contrite mannor.

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	From: alexmatt	Date: November 15th, 2003 09:50 am (UTC)		(Link)

I agree with you on most of the your reasoning.
But what about the American interventions that did work ?
Like the Military Dictatorship that they created in Brasil, or their intervention in WWII. A lot of people and all the british should be gratefull for that...

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	From: vexen	Date: November 15th, 2003 10:02 am (UTC)		(Link)

I specifically mention World War 2 as an example of success, and do point out that in many circumstances the USA does excellent work.

The purpose of the page is to highlight reasons why people hate the USA - and, failed intervention in a country is one of the most catatrsophic long-term causes of anti-American hatred, especially when it's the population that suffers.

We don't need to be any more grateful for US help in WW2 than we do for the Russian's help - the Russians lost twenty million people during that war, and destroyed themselves pouring into Northern Europe despite Germany's superior weaponry and power. Without French resistance, USA help, Russian self sacrifice, the UK would have fell to the Germans, as would have all of Europe. I do very much hope that we are grateful to all those who helped defend Europe from tyranny.

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From: baphomette	Date: November 15th, 2003 01:26 pm (UTC)		(Link)

I added you too, hope you don't mind. If you do you can always like take me off or however it works.

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	From: vexen	Date: November 15th, 2003 01:33 pm (UTC)		(Link)

No problem!

(Also, people can add whoever they want to their friends' list, so it doesn't, strictly speaking, even matter if the other person wants to be listed or not!)

Please note I'll be going offline for 3 months soon.

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From: baphomette	Date: November 15th, 2003 01:41 pm (UTC)		(Link)

I see, thanks.

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	From: megadog	Date: November 16th, 2003 09:29 am (UTC)		(Link)

Indeed - the current Arab/Israeli situation in the Middle East is largely of the UK's making, thanks to our meddlesome intervention there at the end of the 19th-century/beginning of the 20th century.

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	From: vexen	Date: November 16th, 2003 10:10 am (UTC)		(Link)

Yep we can hardly deny that!

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From: ex_myst341	Date: November 17th, 2003 09:43 am (UTC)		(Link)

True, the U.S. is not alone in this. Part of the problem now is that we don't have another powerful nation to keep us in check (ever since the *collapse* of the Soviet Union, for example). Now the U.S. is just running roughshod over these countries, ignoring the U.N. when it suits Bush and his circle. You might want to expound on this essay someday and include a few more references.

:)

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	From: vexen	Date: November 17th, 2003 10:29 am (UTC)		(Link)

Russia and the UK contributed and also helped train the groups I mention (I can't remember if that's on one of the quotes on that page...), Russia in particular was a keen arms exporter... it still is frequently accused of (for example) selling high tech (nuclear) technology to various countries.

I am collecting notes to do an equally huge UK version of my USA site... actually I fantasize about eventually doing one for many countries! But since our colonial days, the UK hasn't really had the *power* to resume it's old habits!

Oh... side note!!

I'm reading "The Jewish War" by Josephus (a history of the Judean war against the Roman Empire in the early first century), and the Romans had some similar problems! In particular, on the bus on the way home, I highlighted a lengthy speach by the Caesar Emperor Vespian, condemning those who were fed by immense Roman riches to build a wonderful and beautiful land, including the most beautiful temple that the Earth has ever seen, the Jewish temple in Jerusalem, only to turn with all their riches and attack the Roman Empire!

Although not a "terrorist group", it's same thing... the Roman Empire (USA) supported the government. King Herod's excellent rule was condemned for, despite his fairness and competence, being a subordinate of the Caesar and not God. This is the same in Pakistan running up to the 1969 revolution... the USA supported government only befriended the government, not the people. (Largely because the people were ignorant and stupid). Eventually, the people rose to power (as did the Partisans, over the royalty, in Judea) and attack their benefactors.

Same story... 2000 years ago... I have funny feeling that this will go on... the masses will never learn! (Hopefully the Internet will change all that!)

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From: (Anonymous)	Date: January 31st, 2004 09:56 am (UTC)		(Link)
good site

you have a good site, it seems honest and shows both sides of the issue. Using Mike Moore for quotes kind of brings the whole site inot question. He is a single minded socialist who hates everything about his home country. He is ant-capitalist when in fact he is flown around the nation in corporate jets paid for by the democratic national commitee and his book company. These are facts and unfortunatly when you use his quotes to make points you really do not make a point at all. Just letting you know how most Americans see this guy.
thanks

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