2005

vexen

Vexen Crabtree's Live Journal

Sociology, Theology, Anti-Religion and Exploration: Forcing Humanity Forwards


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2005
vexen

The Golden Rule, Ethic Of Reciprocity and the Wiccan Rede

"Ethics Of Reciprocity like the Golden Rule and the Wiccan Rede Do Not Work" by Vexen Crabtree (2001)

Interesting. This is exactly the sort of thing I believe in too.

I'd write something more interesting and conversationalish but... I'm far too bloody tired from last night. :P

Thought I'd cause some disturbance....hope you don't mind

insanityxawaits

2005-03-31 06:56 am (UTC)

I'd have to say that was a really well written essay...but you stumbled where you wrote "The Low End: Do to others as they do to you". That is not what is in the first quote of your essay. The first part says "The Golden Rule (do unto others as you would have them do to you) ". There's a significant difference between the two. The golden rule imply's that you should practice kindness and forgivness if you would like other to forgive and be kind to you. In other words, If you want to be treated nicely by somebody, you'r going to have to treat them nice to. What you have written, "Do to others as they do to you", is as you say, like a warrior going into battle fighting with the assumption that he is going to be attacked. No person in their right mind wouldn't go into battle without that thought. By returning a selfish act with another selfish act (thoughts of revenge), we are only lowering ourselves to the same level. By returning a selfish act with an act of grace or forgivness we are then verifying that it was indeed a selfish act, causing that person to realize what they have done and allowing them to raise themselves to a higher level of thinking. now isn't that what we all want??

"do unto others as you would have them do to you"
What if you are a sado-masochist then? They love to get punished, while I dont.

I like this one better:
"Don't do unto others what you don't want them to do to you".

I recently read this book by Dalai Lama, "words from the heart" and he has a lot of good points. He said something like (I read the norwegian translation from french from tibethanian so it's impossible to be correct..)

Be kind to others, because they will respect you more, and that will benefit you. Even if you are an egoist, you should at least be an intelligent egoist, and be kind to others.

I recommend this book, because it's so simple, so clear and directly, it contain a great degree of insight into the human emotions. Even a child can read this book and agree, and even a psychopat. Dalai Lama is so universal.


Yeah, and Confucius...

g66

2005-08-03 06:40 pm (UTC)

Confucius was recording an old Chinese saying when he wrote "Do not do to others what you would not want done to you."

This one is better formulated than mine above. (pasted in from your page). There's a difference, Confucius is defensive. I prefer to be defensive, not bug people more than strictly needed.

Sorry for this extra post then ;)

The golden rule should have the same idea behind it as "overcome evil with good" "Overcome falsehood with truth" etc. To suggest that we be kind
to evil rulers by doing nothing is not an accurate picture. We should try to show them their errors kindly even if they would have us punished.

Read luke6:20-49 to fully understand the sentance:"Luke 6:31 And as you would that men should do to you, do you also to them likewise."
You have to read it in it's full context.
Not just pluck it out and compare it like it was just anther common frase
that you could find in any culture or religion.
you have to take jesuses sayings/words as a whole.
Luke 6:47 "Whosoever comes to me and hears my sayings, and does them, I will show you to whom he is like:" someone on a rock
It's obvious in his sayings that your not expecting return,from man that is.
just read on from the so called golden rule and you we'll see
in verse 32,33,34 A question:"what thanks is there to you?"
the word "thanks" can be better tranlated from greek as grace or favor.
which is the same word in the greek that is used in romans 5:15
which is seen as coming from God.A gift.
So it would make no sence for one that didn't believe in God's return(grace)to do this one saying:And as you would that men should do to you, do you also to them likewise




golden rule=doesnt work not true

(Anonymous)

2008-09-16 09:39 am (UTC)

something i notice it seems everyone misses when they talk about this is ..would you want for yourself for self defense to be a right ? or would you want to not be allowed to defend yourself if attacked? self defense and the rule of reciprocity do indeed go hand in hand and do work to create healthy societies imho

Re: golden rule=doesnt work not true

vexen

2008-11-28 04:01 pm (UTC)

Self defence surely works with the golden rule, because it someone attacks you it means they are open for you to do the same thing to them; and likewise, otherwise can be as violent as you (if you are an agressor) in defending themselves. Hopefully adhering to this rule prevents escalation - one of its good points.

your stuff is weak. you make the alternate argument look much stronger

Civilocity

(Anonymous)

2011-02-28 06:49 pm (UTC)

Civilocity is a form of government where the people watch the ruler or elected official entirely amongst their reign. Civilocity verse democracy; knowing if there is law is more intelligent then picking a human who says there is law.

How the world has reacted to civilocity for the last three years is the most repulsive thing that has ever happened in history because they listen to a criminal who says there is law instead of instating civilocity to know if there is law.

Its the same as the world being flat or round, in the center of the universe or not in the center ideology.

They say a woman needs more then civilocity. I say, I can show you over a million who don't.

If civilocity was instated around the world after world war two it could have prevented the genocide in Rwanda, Sudan, Bosnia, Cambodia, and it could prevent genocide today. Show me the law that says its illegal to teach civilocity. How do you, Vexen Crabtree, keep civilocity quiet after the holocaust?

How the world has reacted to civilocity for the last three years is the most repulsive thing that has ever happened in history because they listen to a criminal who says there is law instead of instating civilocity to know if there is law.

What scholar would not want to know everything every single pharaoh and president did while ruling Egypt? Who is against civilocity? What soldier would not want to know everything every single president of Afghanistan did before 9/11/2001? How the world has reacted to civilocity for the last three years is the most repulsive thing that has ever happened in history because they listen to a criminal who says there is law instead of instating civilocity to know if there is law. Show me the law that says its illegal to teach civilocity. How do you, Vexen Crabtree, keep it quiet after so many genocides? What soldier would not want to know everything every single president of Afghanistan did before 9/11/2001?

How do you, Vexen Crabtree, keep civilocity quiet before 9/11/2001 let alone after?

It's impressive right.

Nathaniel I. Wenger
www.civilocity.com

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