Vexen Crabtree 2015

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Vexen Crabtree's Live Journal

Sociology, Theology, Anti-Religion and Exploration: Forcing Humanity Forwards


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Vexen Crabtree 2015
vexen

Trash Culture

UK Trash Culture

HMMMM... you sound a little like "Hitler" in this site. You know, create the "perfect" race of people, etc. As if ANY government can correct the problems you address. You get my drift. Yes, they are real problems, but no person/laws or government is going to solve them. I know you, and others, are trying to create a "eutopia" here on earth, but it's never going to happen. This earth is not intended to ever be perfect because it's not our home ... heaven is (if you are a believer). Also, this world has a date set by God to be destroyed. It will never be a "eutopia" with "perfect people." You don't understand what's happening world-wide due to your unbelief in God/Jesus/the Bible. As God states in the Bible, "The wickedness and violence will increase" ... NOT DECREASE. And, also, in the "latter days" ... "The love of many will grow cold." And ... "Children will hate/turn against their fathers and mothers." All the things you mentioned in your site are meant to happen and will continue to get worse. NOTHING will stop the process. However, there is hope. There will be a day when God destroys this earth and He delivers to us (that is those who are believers) a new earth/heaven ... which is called the "new Jerusalem" after the "old" earth, heaven, etc. are destroyed. And God/Jesus will reign from the center of the New Jerusalem with us for eternity in the "perfect environment" ... no more tears, hurt, anger, sadness, pain, disease, violence and SIN. Just "eternal happiness" serving God/Jesus in heaven FOREVER. I can't wait. I know, you don't buy into any of the above and you think I'm nuts, on drugs, narrow-minded, uneducated and delusional. However, I'm none of the above. Maybe the only thing you could get me on is I don't have a college degree (I don't think that makes you uneducated and/or stupid). However, I have worked in the local prosecutor's office for about 20 years. A very responsible job dealing with prosecuting criminals (the very type you speak of in your site). I've seen the worst of the worst in my job ... from serial killers, baby killers, organized crime murders, gang-related murders, etc. No one thinks I'm nuts, I come to work every day, pay my bills, extremely responsible, don't smoke, drink or do drugs (never have), I'm married with 4 children, and 3 grandchildren (however I'm only 43 years old). I have a very nice house on the intra-coastal waterway with a nice boat in the back yard and it only takes me minutes to reach the beautiful turquoise blue waters of the Atlantic Ocean. Not that I haven't made my MANY share of mistakes in my life and have not had bad times/problems in my life. It's just that now I have God/Jesus in my life and He is my guide. I now truly understand why I'm here (and everybody else), how I was created, why/how the earth was created and what my purpose is in life and also where I'm going to spend eternity. And with all that, I am finally TRULY happy. All the "things" I mentioned above I had BEFORE I accepted Jesus as my Savior, but I NEVER had TRUE happiness. The "things" only bring "temporary" or "fleeting" happiness. I now have "eternal happiness." I'm just always truly happy ... not that I don't ever have a bad day, etc. You see, you are looking for happiness/perfection in the people/things of this world. Man is sinful and imperfect ... incapable of of perfection. I'm sorry to say you will never find it in them or the temporal things of this world ... only in God. This world is heading for total and mass destruction/judgement from God ... my suggestion is you turn to God for your happiness/eutopia. You will certainly find it in Him and you will NEVER be disappointed. It's funny, you talk about the "young trash culture" and how you would "fix" the problem ... i.e., having the government "curtail/outlaw" their behavior. I say go ahead and give that a try and see how it WON'T WORK. Like I said, I work at prosecuting criminals ... from the most violent to the petty ones. You know how I and other "born-again Christians" fight to change that "trash culture, violence-driven culture"? We go into the youth prisons and minister to them and give them/teach them the Word of God (Bible).

Thankfully, "wickedness" has decreased. Although there are wars, the scale and horror of histories' wars are mostly behind us. There is no dark ages, no inquisition, no mass communist threat, no cold war, very little in the way of war casualties compared to the past. World peace will never be possible, I agree, but over the last 50 years things have gotten a little better. I only hope and try to make the world better in the little, vague, slight ways in which I can. There is nothing Hitlerian in that.

Things have also improved in that most countries are vastly improved in their attitude towards human rights, animal rights, environmental concerns, scientific cautiousness, etc. There is no time in history that has seen such wide-scale responsible thinking and action. Whatever increasing wickedness that you speak of is a characteristic of all living life, both animal and human. I do not see that it is "increasing", but that knowledge and care have decresed it.

This isn't the correct site to discuss religion, sorry.

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The Trash Culture

(Anonymous)
Hello, I read with interest your article on the British Trash Culture. Can I say firstly it needs editing; e.g. "consumption has went through the roof" I am sure is meant to say "gone through the roof". Perhaps it's catching!

I notice that no-where among your scathing comments and descriptions of people being stupid and ignorant that you seriously address the underlying causes of your perception of the British culture. Basically, it seems as though your polemic is designed to vent your own frustrations and anger and I can't really say you come over as very objective. To simply label people and make generalisations and, in your way stereotype the public isn't exactly the result of some deep thinking on your part.

May I ask what you are doing about this - apart from having a bash on a Web site? I would be more impressed if you spent some time giving you views on how this state of affairs has been reached and what you think the remedy is. Saying that we need some type of "preaching" is merely to join the bandwagon of Hyde Park corner soapbox speakers.

Generally I agree with your views of what is happening but ranting in this fashion is not congruent with what you purport to stand for and what you believe you are (or rather not - i.e. not stupid, not ignorant etc.).

So, do you have anything to say apart from these statements of the obvious?

Peter



Re: The Trash Culture

Thanks for your honest feedback. There are multiple bad grammatical errors, at the moment I've only spell-checked. I launched the site in a hurry because I knew I wouldn't have access to source files for 2 weeks. I'll be editting it a bit more thoroughly within a week. I'm not online much due to work. Thanks for pointing out that specific English abhorrency!

My motives are that I believe that pointing things out and writing a general classification aids identification of the problem. My pages get lots of hits, hopefully I myself help bring the problems to the fore a little, and perhaps therefore facilitate an improvement. Although HOW to implement improvement I do not know.

I have worked with the government training unemployed, anti-social people, my present work is much the same but much more physical and long term. I work with the most ignorant people as their philosopher and fellow warrior-teacher. Quite an old fashioned role in todays world!

I do now know how this state of affairs came to be reached. I would theorize that since world war 2 we never really recovered the culture that we lost; we've lost empire and structure as all of Britain has now been de-classed and re-compartmentalized. The result is the loss of the best character-forming institutions and their replacement by new, young, more short-term departments of government. I don't know what can be done about this; but also note that the present departmentalisation of the West has also brought amazing benefits too. I want to look into the causes of trash culture but do not have much time, research can sometimes be slow, especially because this is only a side-issue to my main interests in life.

Anyway... if I am less than objective it's because I do, of course, pick up the things that I dislike most and would automatically tend to ignore the things that I don't think are so bad. I do include in the trash culture and negative Britain page many things that I personally don't think are important (cricket, for example!), but that others do.

Re: The Trash Culture (Anonymous) Expand
Personally, I think that the new 24-hour drinking laws coming into effect can be nowt but a good thing in the long run. It'll ensure that streets won't be filled with pissheads come 11pm as such people will have a place to go, instead of loitering in the streets starting trouble.

Besides, government intervention only undermines the idea that this is meant to be a free country. Are people so lacking in self-will that they need the State to tuck them up in bed at 11pm every night?

I'd also like to say that your commentary on the state of the nation was pretty spot-on. You missed out mention of gobby birds and the like - the obnoxious female equivalent of the pissed-up lager louts and footy hooligans.

Uri Geller is from Israil, honey.

Binge Drinking & Pub Culture

(Anonymous)
'I predict a riot', Kasier Cheifs, its not very pretty i tell thee!

'Football has become an institutionalized sport in England. Major matches are almost national holidays, with nearly all employees and their bosses finding ways to, almost religiously, watch the game live. It is the trademark of English yob culture.'

Are you implying that anyone who follow football is a Yob?

'Our fans are the most violent, least respectful, most disruptive and worst behaved in the world.'

Hhhmmmm, bit of a sweeping statement. How about the Turks's, Spanish, Italians? I'd certainly agree that thats how there percived though.

Some Turkish fans have killed english fans in the past and suffered little consequences. The Spanish and Italians (As well as Albanians, and some other Eastern European countries) have used racist chants before.

The most recent incident which annoyed me was when England played Spain and a couple of the English players we're subject to racist chants. They got a £60,000 fine. Bloody joke. If it had been the other way round i doubt England would have been allowed to play international football for a number of years.

Football is a hobby to most people. You sit at home messing with your web site, fair enough. A lot of people like watching football, doesn't make them yobs.

I belive that international football (and sport in general) is something which truely brings nations together. The World cups are fantastic. In England football is even being used as a driving force against racism.

Christ i don't even like football - much prefer test cricket, its the most facinating game in the world, certainly the most tactical on a field. If only that was the worlds most popular sport...

Just because, as I said, football is the topmost trademark of yob culture does not, of course, mean that anyone who likes football is a yob. Thinking that is a logical fallacy. There are many respectable normal people who like football, and not only those who "just" sit at home watching it.

You are correct in pointing out that other countries too have a bad culture growing around football. But, the sheer scale and frequency is NOTHING like the same as it is amongst our fans. We've not only been doing it worse, harder, more shockingly, but for /longer/ than any other country. If some countries are starting to catch-up with their own football trash behaviour, it is in no way an excuse for our own.

There is no need to deride me for having a website. A site, that I might add, I rarely have time to "mess" with.

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great thinking:)

(Anonymous)
I agree on everything you wrote about trash culture although somwhere at the end you seem like you want to have an idealist society, sth.like idealised past with aristocrats and servants and common people.I live in Bosnia and I may say that the young people here much resemble to those in UK all they care about is trashy clothes, quick fun a lot of money, they go to caffees all the time and jeer at inteligent people. I am preparing a presentation on trash culture at my university and would highly appreciate to hear your opinion about kinds of relationships among those young people who enjoy to be part of trash culure.

wtf?

(Anonymous)
you're a fuckin idiot! go fuck yourself!

WE need another war

(Anonymous)
Due to this countries complete and utter lack of decent employment for the masses,i think a large scale invasion of another country would be a good idea,rebuild the empire,send the idiots off as cannon fodder and rebuild our industry to provide the tools of war.I think the benefits would be great to all, rebuild industry ,kill of the morons and expand our pathetic tiny island,were we not the workshop of the world once,did we not invent ,steel,steam engines,the jet engine to name but a few?We have all the natural resources to do this,and the clever people,myself included could put our intellects to good use!!

I Am Glad to Find this Site.

(Anonymous)
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Trash culture

(Anonymous)
At last someone who see's the Uk for what it really is ,a shoddily albeit expensively dressed public house. I chanced across your site while researching for an essay on "class constriction of leisure choices",and was instantly sidetracked.
Living in the North East of England,slap bang in the middle of a town called Middlesbrough,I see the degeneration of culture every night from my window.
Being at University here,I am becoming aware of just how shallow the English really are.

Re: Trash culture

Stick with the student, you'll miss them when you have to move into normal culture! What are you studying?

Questions?

(Anonymous)
I found your article very interesting and I have to say shocking, not the least because I found myself agreeing with much of what was written in it. But I do have a couple of questions.

I noticed at one point you refer to the public as "a terrible, seething mass of stupid and uneducatable untermensch."

uneducatable? do you believe it is the case that many people in the UK can't ever be taught to think for themselves? ever, in any circumstance?and if so, what would you do with these people? I'm sure the ideal solution would be "make them go away somehow." but that kind of intention leads to things. I read the messages left by that apoplectic Christian and they made me laugh, but he does have a point when he says you sound like a certain elitist dictator. This doesn't make you wrong... but maybe there's an implication in that sentence that you could consider.

There's definitely a feeling of elitism to your essay. not that i hold that this is wrong, but... how much time have you spent talking to those people who you rail against? i mean talked to on a neutral topic, not a debate about their lifestyle. people are never at their best when they're under attack, so i doubt that the responses you get over the internet are indicative of the full potential of the personality who is writing to you. i mean, have you held any kind of lengthy conversation recently with the kind of person who you attack in your essay? a conversation on a neutral topic?
I've often found that people can be surprising once you talk to them for a while. just because someone's wearing a fashionable outfit doesn't make them moronic. i myself dont follow fashion and I think it's a waste of time, but some of my friends do, and none of them are brainless idiots. i like reading philosophy. do they care? i tell my friend the stuff i've read, and we debate about it. she reads cosmopolitan magazine. do i care?

from the outside, people might appear to be stupid sometimes, and sometimes they are - very, very stupid - but I belive it's wrong to judge people from appearance. or by what tv programs they watch. and unless youve held a conversation with every person in england, i think it's wrong to assume you know them all. judging someone because theyre wearing an inverted cross or a pentacle or whatever - yes, thats wrong. but judging someone because theyre carrying a MORGAN bag? isn't that the same thing?
you can't judge a huge mass of people by the idiots among them.

well, I ended up writing a lot more than I intended there. I hope most of it came out coherent. once again, I thought your essay was very insightful. Please reply.

Thanks for the reply. Here goes, paragraph at a time! Starting with P3 "uneducatable?..."

P3: Yes, that is the case although I wouldn't stand by *absolute* comments to that effect, just that that is the general truth, although every specific person will have certain areas and times when (s)he breaks free.

No, you can't "make them go away" somehow, it is just the way much of humanity is. As you say, "making them" go away leads to some pretty dark and pointless places. I still consider them "innocent", even if they are untermensch, and as such I couldn't arbitrarily condemn them even if there was a morally safe & practical way to "solve" the problem of the masses.

I wrote a little on "How to relate to the Untermensch" on a different website:

"It is difficult, when faced with mobs, uneducated and pathetic Human beings with no sense of social responsibility or of self improvement, to not wish they would die. But, if so many people curled up and died, society would break down. I believe that there will always be the untermensch, the inferior Human beings, and that they will be numerically superior. As such, I believe it is more important for the elite, and whoever includes himself amongst them, to be publically humble.

This means, learning how to deal with people. This is harder than becoming bitter and hateful. It is harder, and more rewarding, to be able to mingle, fit in and be calm within society. The true ubermensch, who have risen above their own cultures, knows, like a vampire, that it is better to use these people than it is to oppose them. That's what the religions of the world do very well, because they have it right: The untermensch will not rise, not improve, and are only ever pacified into accepting the status quo, or led under charismatic leaders.

What those charismatic leaders do, the ones who lead mankind (for better or for worse), is learn how to control the people on their own terms. To be above them, yet part of them, to be elite, yet humble.

... and if anyone out there ever figures out how to do this, please let me know."
From http://www.dpjs.co.uk/elitism.html#Untermensch

It continues with a bad example, amongst a page of other stuff about elitism.

An important anti-genocide paragraph of mine is:

" know that there is no valid way to measure who is unworthy - there are plenty of geniuses who have no qualifications, are scruffy, messy individuals who may be judged "unworthy" - in fact, some of the greats of history have been such polar characters. Also, some of the people with the best-sounding qualifications are also some of the most mindless. Attempting to differentiate between Humans is impossible, and therefore I don't support any attempt to actually employ tactics to "improve" the Human species through such means"

So be at peace about that when vote for me when I'm running for New World Order president!


Re: Questions? (Anonymous) Expand

Your piece

(Anonymous)
I'm an open minded, literate person who belives in equality and intelligent discussion. I like football - does this make me part of trash culture? I don't agree with any of your sweeping generalisations about it, which, to be honest, are ill-informed and biased in themselves. You wouldn't believe how stereotypical what you say is.

It's the truth I'm after - so I don't care "how stereotypical" what I say is. If it's the truth, it can be as stereotypical as it wants but I won't change it.

Now, speaking of the truth... you're going to have to actually provide some argument or example of why you say the "sweeping generalisations" are wrong, otherwise your post is useless.

And in answer to your question: No, you're not automatically part of trash culture because you like football. Trash Culture is a social trend, a communal phenomenon associated with youth and early adults; it is impossible to take individual people and put solid labels on them, but you can (as I do) point out social trends.

Re: Your piece (Anonymous) Expand
Re: Your piece (Anonymous) Expand
Completely agree with everything you say. I moved to one of the scandivavian countries and intend to stay to bring up my 4 children. The thought of them being brought up in UK fills me with horror. I go back to UK to visit family and am amazed by the British dependence on alcohol and pubs, and the amount of scruffy, jobless young men walking the streets in their NIKE tracksuits, looking ready to punch someone in the face and the amount of teenagers with children. Scandinavia is not the most exciting place on earth, and it's pretty cold in winter, but it's safe, clean and the level of respect people show for each other is triple that of the UK. Although UK is admired for the Beatles etc...it is also laughed at for its yob culture, drunkeness, scrufy people, and over crowded, dirty cities. The UK just never got rid of its class system.....now a new underclass is dominating. check out the new websites such as www.chavscum.co.uk to see what I mean.

Trash Government??

(Anonymous)
We might go on about trash culture but dont forget people follow role models and the government culture of the UK (regardless of party) is just as trashy in its own way. The mentality of UK government (at all levels) is if it doesnt suit us criminalise it. Case example if you now take youy children on holiday during school term the local authority now has the power to fine you! It's also a CRIMINAL offence not to tell the DVLA you have moved address etc.. I would say trash culture is therefore a direct backlash in the face of the scum that make laws in this country and seek to CRIMINALISE everthing they can find. FYI - this is from the UK, but I suspect its now the same in most of todays Orwellian world.

Spot on website. Pinpoints just what is wrong with England and its sad, ignorant, uneducated, culturally backwards inhabitants. I live in England and have done so all of my life but i am leaving asap. In 10 or 20 years time the streets of this once great nation will see civil war because of all the decent , honest hardworking people that have remained and not emigrated are going to snap and rebel against these idiots that are ruling our country, no not the government but the louts.

Smoking

(Anonymous)
Great discussion I agree with almost everything you say. I would contest however the section on Smoking. I fully agree that smoking is a terrible habit and has dire health consequences, however the following quote from your essay is a just not true:

"Smoking costs Britain - there is no benefit of smoking. Smokers lack self-control and are selfish, draining the country of resources..."

This statement implies that a smoker costs the UK government more in NHS treatment over the course of their life than an equiavlent non-smoker. This is just not true in fact the opposite is true and I will demonstrate it. To do so I will show the ecconomic advantages smokers provde that non-smokers do not. I will then provide the ecconomic disadvantages.

Ecconomic Advantages:

1) In 2003-04 the treasury earned just over £8 billion from tobacco duty.
2) The above figure does not include VAT, so an even greater amount was taken in taxation.
3) Smokers die earlier than non-smokers thus passing on savings to the government in state pension and care provision.
4) The tobacco industry provides jobs and profits to people within the UK.

Ecconimc Disadvantages:

1) In 2003-04 the NHS spent approximately £1.5 billion on treating smoking related illnesses.

(These figures are taken from Ash)

I am not going to estimate the financials involved in VAT, the saving passed on through early death or the ecconomic impact of the tobacco industry. It is blatantly obvious when the figures for tobacco duty and treatment are taken into account that smokers are massive net financial contributors to the UK to the tune of £6.5 billion alone in the year 2003-04.

There are estimated to be 15.5 million smokers in the UK. Therefore every smoker in the UK is providing an average net contribution of £1065 per year. Let's make this crystal clear - once all hospital treatment has been paid for there is a profit from smokers that amounts to £1065 per smoker. Whether or not this revenue goes straight to the NHS is no business of the smoker, if smoking was banned this additional £6.5 billion would have to be generated through other forms of taxation. This would not be an easy task - the average wage earner (I’ve taken a figure of £22k here) pays £4750 in tax and NI per year. If smoking were to be banned altogether it would take over 1.3 million additional average earners to replace this income through income taxation and national insurance payments.

What I am trying to say here is that I agree smoking can be attacked on the basis of it being antisocial, unpleasant and bad for you etc. But it should not be attacked on the premise that smokers negatively impact on the financial well being of this country - that's just not true.

We are still better than the USA

(Anonymous)
I have read your little article about the UK. I do really think that you lot think us Brits are a bunch of dumb smokers who get drunk, watch football and have bad teeth. Now let me think do you have free health care? NO Have you had a female leader? NO Do have more than 2 major political parties? NO So what if people like football (not soccer) by the way i do not like football' i like rugby, which is 10x better than your poor excuse of a sport. If a person whats to get blind drunk so what. You do get intelligent conversation in a the pub, have you been latlely. I do not want more asylum seekers in my country, don't forget you are bigger than we are(do you like it when people from Mexico come across the boarder). You have more crime than we do. You have more violence than we do. You have more drunken crime than we do. You have a bigger drug culture than we do. You have more over weight people than we do By the way who cares what our teeth looks like, or are you lot that shallow? We should have whipped your arse, when we had the chance. Don't forget without us you lot would not be even here. Don't try and say you lot saved are butts in the 1st and 2nd World Wars. We would have either joined them which i wish we did, or beat them.

Vexen, I admire your strong, rational approach to a culture which, in many ways, is experiencing tragic decay. Your emphasis on rational research and genuine analysis of the problem, as opposed to reactionary scapegoating is solidly uplifting.

I must however express regret at the use of the quote "44% of young teenagers who drink also get involved in drugs." It saddens me that it is not widely recognised that alcohol is a drug like any other.

Nevertheless, HAIL VEXEN!

Trash Culture

(Anonymous)
Fully appreciate your views although I disagree with your thoughts on Democracy. You hold the view that a government wants to do its best for a country. I would say that government is the apex of ego doing only what is best for itself. A government's main aim is to be re-elected. The more uneducated, the more stupid the masses, the more dependent they become on the government. Their vote is practically bought. Intellects see through government hyperbole. The masses, as you rightly point out, vote on the shallowest of policies. It has been the case over the last decade that the promise of rising house prices has turned the British into an even more apathetic nation than ever before blindly accepting any tax, price rise and second-rate service in exchange for being ' property richer' at the end of the year. For this 'bonus' they will happily vote. And don't the government just love them for it.

It's also worth noting that 500,000 people leave England each year in search of a better life - another reason why so many immigrants are needed. Those leaving tend to be educated, middle-classes who can see the place for what it really is. Thus, It leaves an even bigger pool of stupid, something-for-nothing graspers only to willing to vote for the government that gives them 'free' money. Self perpetuating and difficult to stop once rolling.

Social engineering has never been so simple.

I didn't think your aticle was even handed. Your language was too emotive. The tearm 'trash culture' is insulting, and I cant help feeling that it has racist/ classist undertones. Do you really know whats best for 60 million 'souls's? no? Let me guess your just a guy with an idea...

I didn't think your article was even handed. Your language was too emotive. The tearm 'trash culture' is insulting, and I cant help feeling that it has racist/ classist undertones. Do you really know whats best for 60 million 'souls's? no? Let me guess your just a guy with an idea...

Trash Culture

(Anonymous)
The problem with this discourse is the tendency for le mond anglo-saxon to take polarised positions. The boor hates the prig and vice versa. The 19th century aspirant middle class took as its unique character respectability.
This made them risible to the upper class and the educated of all classes, and has given, in equally deleretious ways, something for the working classes to despise and, rediculously, emulate.

Trash Culture

(Anonymous)
A very forthright exposition of the status quo. You have obviously spent some bad-quality time in pubs. There is another side of pub culture that perhaps you have missed. The times where the priveleged and the poor meet on equal terms. Although I think most of Roger Scruton's philosophy is deeply flawed, he makes a good case in this respect.

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