Vexen Crabtree 2015


Vexen Crabtree's Live Journal

Sociology, Theology, Anti-Religion and Exploration: Forcing Humanity Forwards

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Vexen Crabtree 2015


This is for random entries and comments about my websites as a whole. Don't worry about not having a LiveJournal account, just post anonymous comments, this is just a guestbook entry.

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Re: Just passing through

If I was a Christian who believed in wierd ideas like heaven and hell, I wouldn't be a Satanist. As it happens, I'm a Satanist, not a Christian, and hence have different beliefs to you. I would understand if you were confused (you are) by my RELIGION (not 'faith'), as you don't know anything about it, and I would understand if you disagreed with it, but finding a belief "disguisting" is just wierd to me. Do you find all beliefs (apart from yours) "disguisting" or just the ones that you don't like the name of?

Satanism is not Christianity:

Also, to answer your question, I don't believe in heaven, I believe after I die I cease to exist. If there was a good god, however, I do believe it wouldn't punish me for my ignorance, when I die, but it would educated me. I doubt a good God could punish people for things they don't know - stupidity is not a sin in Christianity. Although it is in Satanism. outlines a few of the basics of Satanism - including the very clear issue of afterlife: There is none.

Re: Just passing through


Re: Just passing through

Stupidity is not a sin but aren't you claiming to be an elitist. Wouldn't that make you the opposite of a stupid person? Suppose that have been exposed to the truth but you have decided that your own hypothesis is much more fitting, wouldn't that be the same as denying God, since Christianity claims that he is the truth? According to Christians, God gives us free will. Now, I read somewhere that you don't believe in free will, but doesn't it take more faith to believe that you have no control over your actions, since - like all human beings - you are held accountable for your actions by the law and there is an obvious conciousness in your mind that governs between deciding what is right to do and what is wrong to do? We have free will to obey the law of our society. If we have no control over our actions, can we then stand in front of the judge and aske to be excused from our crimes because we believe this.

And doesn't it take more faith to believe that this whole universe and everything in it just... "IS"... and that there is no creator, as complex as humans are? I believe you said you studied biology. You should know how complicated the human body is. That along with the complexity human brain - about which there are still many things that baffle scientists - it seems rather difficult to believe that we just evolved this way. If we did evolve, then why does it seem like nature hasn't made any "mistakes." If there is no one to make sure that life forms are functioning properly then how is order maintained? Shouldn't there be many more categories of life forms than exist now? There wouldn't probably be more than one species of humans, depending on the climate in which they lived, right? But theres only one.

It all seems so sad to me. You have probably understood by now that I am a christian. Please explain to me how this Satanism gives you purpose to your life. You have made some valid points but I still don't understand. Are you happy? Why is it called Satanism anyway?

First three points in order, as you raised them:

1. Stupidity is a sin in Satanism just like worshipping the prophet, and not God directly, is a sin in Islam.

2. You said: "Suppose that have been exposed to the truth but you have decided that your own hypothesis is much more fitting, wouldn't that be the same as denying God, since Christianity claims that he is the truth?"

That's daft; if I believed everything people told me, I would have to be a dozen religions simultaneously. Muslims tell me Muslim truth, Christians tell me Christian truth, Hindus, Pagans, Zoroastrians, Jews, Buddhists and Daoists all tell me their "truths"... I am "denying" these things because there is no evidence, which is exactly the same reason you deny most of them too. You might see that one set of supernatural claims is true (your own), but, I am sure none of them are true.

3. Free will - I know there is no free will because I have worked it out and then augmented the conclusion with studies in neurology, philosophy and the sciences of causality. We do indeed think and feel that we have free will; but our thinkings and feelings are the result of a physics that is beyond our own true control. It's nothing to do with faith, but rational cause-and-effect and evidence.

We cannot disclaim our own behaviour because we still have responsiblity for it (just like bacteria is responsible for disease whether it "chooses" to be a pathogen or not), and, in courts the argument from determinism has been tried and deemed unsubmissable - thankfully our legal system knows that as behaviour is caused, it can cause good behaviour by legislating against bad behaviour. So it is right to continue with the legal system.

My full page on Free Will & Determnism is: "Free Will and Determinism" by Vexen Crabtree (1999)

Edited at 2008-01-31 12:47 pm (UTC)

4. It takes the same amount of faith to believe in an atheist or theistic universe. Consider the similarity:

The belief that everything has a cause except one thing.

This statements applies to theism, where theists say "how can the universe have a cause?" and therefore say it must be "created"... but atheists correctly say, "So what caused God?". We both believe in one uncaused object. In your case, God, in my case, the universe itself.

"Assumptions about God that theists make" by Vexen Crabtree (2002) lists many additional assumptions that theists make about their first cause; that it is conscious, that it has emotions, that it interacts with the universe, etc. To believe all these things about God is to believe that a complex being can just exist without being designed or created.

The same things for the simple laws of physics, which over vast timespans, allow the evolution of repeating and duplicating chemical structures, which are therefore subject to the natural forces of evolution, leading over billions of years to the complex lifeforms we see today.

The evidence is massive: As we look back in time, we see fossils SHOW us that descendents evolve from ancestors, inheriting their traits and slowly changing over time. We can view this process in genetics, where many advances are being made, in the fossil record, and in the studying of the distribution of species, genes and fossils throughout the Earth.

Nature has made many, many mistakes - do not forget that 99% of all species are extinct, many paths of evolution have been short-lived. Many species today have features that are outdated. For example us humans have wisdom teeth, dimples that try to fluff up nonexistent hair when it is cold, and appendixes. Some such products of evolution are lethal. My page "Evolution: Evidence, Unintelligent Design, Inherited Traits and Artificial Life" by Vexen Crabtree (2007) looks at some of these mistakes.

Re: Just passing through

5. I had guessed you are Christian, it is true, as I also guess you are American. America is the hotbed of English-speadking anti-science, anti-evolution religionists.

6. "Vexen: Why I am a Satanist" by Vexen Crabtree (2001)


"Who is Satan?" by Vexen Crabtree (2000)

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