Vexen Crabtree 2015

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Vexen Crabtree's Live Journal

Sociology, Theology, Anti-Religion and Exploration: Forcing Humanity Forwards


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Vexen Crabtree 2015
vexen

Forgotten people...

Billions of people are completely forgotten, having left no legacy and with no-one alive to remember them. And with so many Humans alive today, and so many recently dead, who has time to wonder about the forgotten dead?

Wouldn't it be interesting to, pretty much randomly, pick out one person from history, a completely unknown person say from 1920s London, and get to know them? Find out about them, their interests, loves, hopes?

Just in the vain hope that if WE can remember someone else, someone in the future might also be affected by OUR insignificant lives, and somehow rectify the fearful nothingness death that encroaches on us all?

I was thinking about responses to near-death experiences... many people are energized by it. My response to impending nothingness, the victory of death, is to be obsessively productive, short and elitist... but nearly always in intellectual, high-brow ways... I want to understand, forsee and affect the future BECAUSE my life is short.

But others, instead, become obsessed with trivial life, they merely want to see, experience and do. I was thinking, what good is having seen that or having been there, once you're dead? Who would know or care what you've seen or done?

But if you make yourself great and productive, creative in a Nietzsche superman way, it seems to make life worthwhile.

What merit is there in either of these two reactions? Physical, experience, or in future power and foresight? One person decides, because life is short, to do as many extreeme sports as possible.. another decides to change the future and make the world a better place, not caring for their own life. One is a hero, the other is shallow... but both are equally trying to nullify the pointlessness of life.

So is it interesting to find out, WHO IS a dead person? Nearly all dead want to be remembered... but hardly any are. Everyone should research a random dead dude!
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I was thinking, what good is having seen that or having been there, once you're dead?

What good is a legacy when you're dead? During life, the feeling that you've made a difference can help to sustain you, but it's not the be all and end all. A life obsessed with legacy to the point of neglecting to 'see, experience, and do' would seem empty (or trivial) to me. Also, it's possible to leave an important 'legacy' or to affect the world without being recognised for it. Does that make it more or less valuable?

Yeah, both are important, that much is obvious. To having done lots of doing without any understanding is just moronic... but to have lots of understanding without doing any doing is also moronic! Gotta have both parts of life.

Legacy and experience are both just veneers, cover-ups for existential angst. The worst part of life is knowing that neither are meaningfully personally! But once you do know, it's even worse to imagine not knowing! It's the famous case of "cgnorance is bliss" versus "Once you're eyes are open you can't close them..."

Ah, if only religious opiates worked on the enlightened, we could pretend life was something!

[Spelling Corrected]

Hmm.. are we talking about the difference between 'making a lasting, significant difference' and 'living a meaningful life', or the difference between 'experiencing but not examining' and 'experiencing and understanding'?

Neither legacy or experience are meaningful? I think they're both meaningful pretty much by definition. In fact, even an unexamined life is not necessarily meaningless. Maybe all qualitative data processing, especially in the brain, is 'meaning' to a greater or lesser extent. By that measure, knowing that you will leave a legacy is meaningful, but the legacy itself is not meaningful to the person that left it. Experience, especially in its usual sense of experiencing the new and non-trivial, is nearly always meaningful... even experience normally considered trivial can be very meaningful from the right angle. (Like the angle taken after a NDE. But a NDE will usually prompt people to seek out the 'new and non-trivial', and so find more meaning).


I don't think meaning is: 'that which counteracts the feeling that, from an "ultimate" or "extremely zoomed out" perspective, we are irrelevant'. The zooming out is an error. Actually, there's a place for all kinds of perspectives, but the only really useful one to measure one's life by is that from where we are now, living, experiencing, seeing, helping, achieving, changing, making signals flurry in our brain, generating meaning.

Yeah, I do give merit to legacies that go unrecognized.

They say... it's a true hero who saves the world without anyone noticing!

bit different, but recognizing how small and insignificant any one life is, I postulate that it's possible that in terms of 'fate' my one purpose in life may only be one moment in my life- say, stopping the next Gandi's mother (at age 16) from stumbling off a curb and getting trampled by an ox cart.
That's it, that's all I am here for.
Doesn't mean I'll ever make the history books, or that I go around looking to 'save' everyone tripping on the curb- just means I pick up trash when I walk by, and am open to people around me.
The fact that I may be in said country on vacation at the time doesn't mean much, but to nulify the importance of my existance by saying I'm being selfish and not accomplishing anything by going there is a bit brazen.
Just food for thought.
Cuz there's always the possiblity that I, in fact, am saving the next Hitler's mother too... *evil grin*
But in Zen philosophy - good and evil are always constant, so there's nothing I can do to avoid THAT either.

Re: my philosophy

Well in terms of cause-and-affect, everything from eating breakfast, going shopping and saying "hello" to someone has eternal consequences. Fate, then, would have to include every little action and inaction that has any kind of cascading influence; even the tiniest little neurone firing off in someone's body, stimulated by whatever inputs stimulate the cell, would have to be part of fate, as all events over time come to affect the future in some way, even down to the unconscious rate at which your body sheds heat and moisture.

Fate, then, really is arbitrary when people decide particular events are fate, whereas others are merely events! Either all events are fate, or there is no coherent concept of fate.

Anyway... I think what you're talking about are defining events that a maximum number of people would grant importance. Your example, influencing the life of someone well-known, would easily be a defining event that many people would recognize.

In Zen philosophy, good and evil are both ego-centric concepts that don't really exist beyond personal bias; in reality there is no good and no evil, the very idea of that dualism only exists to confuse you!

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Realistically that is EXACTLY how I'll feel when I'm dead too! The problem is... I'm still alive... and I don't want to be in a state where I don't have any cares or problems! Ever!... This is morbid...

I don't actually *like* imagining you dead! Post something else to distract me!

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What's it like? Is it... actually hillariously funny, or have they gone and tried to make a plot and things like that?

Not that the books lack plot, there's frequently an absurd over-abundances of semi-related plots... but you can't possibly do that in film if it's going to be shorter than the combined length of every Lord of the Rings extended version.

Funny, or interesting?

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Brilliant!

Reply to "How to sell your soul Satan"

(Anonymous)
Dear Sir or Madam,

On the subject selling your soul to Satan. I really believe you do not even have a clear insight on the subject. There is many aspects and logistics regarding this matter and you have not touched on one of them. You have done nothing but babble on about facts and opinions that you have came up with, and frankly it has nothing to do with the answer that has been asked. Unless you have died for minutes, hours or even seconds you don't have a blipping clue about the after- life happenings. You have no idea if hell exist, or heaven for that matter. Your going on pure stupidity. I feel real sorry for you and the people you hang out with, because your as nieave as the teen-agers your describing. The true facts about God, Angels, Saints ect. or even Satan, Demons, Hell and heaven will come about when you die. So if your not prepared you better start getting prepared for what ever you and who ever reads this. The truth is "YOU MIGHT BE WRONG ABOUT EVERYTHING YOU THOUGHT WAS RIGHT". Think about that. I am not taking any sides but think about what your doing and where you might want to go when you die "IF YOUR WRONG, WHO KNOWS"

NEPHETS

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