From: sunfell	Date: May 29th, 2005 12:00 am (UTC)		(Link)

Interesting post. I've seen a great contrast in what the congregations of believers believe in (as well as what the lower level preachers preach) compared to the scholarly side of the house. It's intelligence versus emotion- the followers being more emotional, and the scholars being intellectual.

I'll admit that I prefer the intellectual side- I told someone today that I know more about the history of the Bible than its contents, and that does not bother me. Anyone can blindly quote Scripture, but not too many understand its historical context or editing. In a way, my intellectual approach keeps me from being swept away in the literalist hysteria propogated by the Evangelical side of the Christian faith.

You're an excellent scholar and writer. Keep up the good work.

	From: vexen	Date: May 29th, 2005 10:26 am (UTC)		(Link)

I can't be bothered with the messy, random "bottom" end either, mostly. Popular science and "big questions" are sometimes interesting elements of grassroots beliefs though.

*shivers at your mentioning of the E word*

Hey thanks for the compliment, it means something, coming from you.

	From: orinotta	Date: May 29th, 2005 11:08 am (UTC)		(Link)

mr vex! email me your phone number & Justin's too? I've lost my phone.

Missing you. Visit soon. x

From: (Anonymous)	Date: June 21st, 2005 05:40 pm (UTC)		(Link)
No Clue

I'm a very intelligent person, with a very good job. I believe every word in the Bible as literal ... God would not have written it and NOT mean ever word in it. DUH! So, I'm intelligent, etc., but I'm a born-again evangelical Christian. So, explain that away in your usual bullshit wordy ways! You and your like, use a lot of big words which really add up to nothing, if not just a bunch of confusion. Satan is the father of lies and confusion. Oh, excuse me, I forgot, you are one of his followers. No need to explain!

	From: vexen	Date: June 21st, 2005 06:51 pm (UTC)		(Link)
	Re: No Clue

Problem is with your theory is that WE wrote the Bible, multiple human beings wrote multiple texts that were only later compiled into a Bible... there is no "Bible written by God" as a single entity, only a mass of already-written texts that WE chose to compile, from hundreds of potential canons.

	From: tangyapple	Date: May 30th, 2005 10:36 pm (UTC)		(Link)

Not all followers of any particular religion are 'stupid.' But I agree that it can be difficult to find the essence of a religion if you're looking in many different directions. Maybe they're just something different to different people. Of course some people will just want to skim off the surface and practice what feels right to them. Others will be drawn to study and interpretation. Just what a religion "is" might be too subjective to come up with any one *correct* answer, IMHO... such is the nature of religion itself. I think Religion is one thing; lifestyle and cultural slant quite another. However, wasn't it more common in earlier ages to leave a religion fairly open and adapt it and shape it with time? (This probably applies more to the ancient Pagan religions, I realize.) Back when only priests had access to the Bible, I'm sure there probably wasn't as much room for "open interpretation" among the common folk!

In my experience, some people have said that merely studying a religion doesn't give you a complete picture of it, and some just "need to be lived."

From: (Anonymous)	Date: June 21st, 2005 05:41 pm (UTC)		(Link)
God

The one and true God is not a "religion", but a relationship with Him, the Almighty.

	From: tangyapple	Date: June 21st, 2005 05:49 pm (UTC)		(Link)
	Re: God

Okay, so that's your belief. Don't try to state it as a fact when it's not.

From: hybridmaster	Date: June 9th, 2005 12:39 am (UTC)		(Link)

It hard to imagine how different the religious views are from person to person. I study many religions trying to figure where I fit in. I am jewish, but study information from all sects of judaism including Spinoza's judaic philosophy that was against religion. I study many other religions. It has given me an adversest(judaic satanist[adversary]) view in life. It's amazing if you studying jewish history. The religion really died when the temple was destroyed because we can't follow all the laws without it. We have been trying to keep the culture alive in case one day the temple will be rebuilt to allow continuation of true judaism.
Today, we have probably 10+ sects of judaism and so many sub-sects because of how the people feel, and not based on the reality of the religion. True Judaism has some satanic background, and the torah has a connection with human nature in general. The mystics have the ability to handle god's power and become healers. That where the chosen people theory come into play. Our goal is tikkun olam(repair the world) or putting god back together by helping others, and not primarily ourselves. Think about that for a second that a small group is suppose to fix something that suppose to be never ending, and this shows god is not perfect or the jews wouldn't exist today. The very fact is that the existence of the universe happen was an adversarial change within a perfect universe(god in some people minds). We believe in going beyond ourselves and not focusing in on ourselves to obtain the power to restore god back to its original form (elitist of the opposite side). If you would like more information on the hidden concepts of judaism or religion in general please email me.

	From: vexen	Date: June 9th, 2005 02:21 pm (UTC)		(Link)

That's interesting stuff, thank you for the comments.

Is Spinoza's following/writing normally considered a "sect of Judaism"? I always thought it was more like part of Hinduism or Indian belief. I've only seen the name in relationship to pantheism and mysticism, and haven't heard of a Jewish connection to his writings before.

Erm, could you list a few of the sects of Judaism? I wish I knew more about Judaism in general, it's obviously had major effects on all Western religion, yet I don't know much of it's (modern) history, aside from the (secular, irrelevant) politics of Israel.

The Judaic reference to "adversists" makes sense to me, within the tradition of the Hebrew scriptures.

From: hybridmaster	Date: June 10th, 2005 02:00 am (UTC)		(Link)
Some basic and unrealized knowledge of judaism

I'll give you names of the common Jewish sects. The order is open to interpretation (Humanistic, Jewish Renewal, Reconstructionist, Reform, Conservative, Orthodox, Hasidim, and true Kabbalist). The difference between them is how open they are to other people and observance of the laws (Halacha). Yisrael (Israel) means to wrestle with god. In today's world we do just that trying to find our connection with god. Humanistic adopt Judaism ideology, but they don't practice the ritual as often. Reform was created to fix the flaws in traditional Judaism by helping others outside of the Jewish community as an example. Reconstructionist took it one step further and created Judaism as a society. Reform, Conservative, Reconstructionist, and Orthodox vary in level of observance and whether they help others then them self. The Chasidim and Kabbalist show their love to god through their actions and enjoyment during prayer, and some of them have a possible connection with god and its power.

The mysterious connection with Spinoza and Judaism is the fact his ideas are the same as the kaballist except they express them in opposite ways(paradox). In fact, Spinoza started off knowing the kabbalah at a young age. I usually call Spinoza's philosophy scientific Judaism. The idea that god is the only one spawns from the kabballah's theory that god was a ball of light and everything was created from it, and is still a part of the original one source after shattering(differentiating). It is our job to restore this sacred light {Echad (one)} by becoming one (integration). Spinoza points out we could do this naturally and not religiously I believe. It's been a while since I have read Spinoza. Spinoza is a perfect example against free will beside the point his philosophy is against it. Spinoza grew up an extremely knowledgeable Jew, and ended up trying to go against the religion. Spinoza was the only Jew to be internationally recognized as excommunicated, and a lot of what he said is ture, but the Jews didn't want change to his ideals. Instead, he creates a paradox, which parallels most of Judaism mystical ideals as well as sufism.

A lot of people try to hide the fact that judaism has a connection with more then itself. The Torah is a complete basic guide to human nature. It has a hard time with complex situations, but you can find almost any basic human interaction in the Torah. All religions and philosophies has some connection with Judaism. Because, one day, we are suppose to integrate as one despite our differences. At least, that is what judaism's system and role in the universe is heading towards.

From: (Anonymous)	Date: June 21st, 2005 05:52 pm (UTC)		(Link)
God is Grieving

You, a Jew, are one of God's chosen people through the Abrahamic Covenant. You are to be proclaiming Him! Judaism is NOT satanic. God and Satan do not work together. I really don't know where people get all this junk. God is counting on you! You are one of His chosen! He has a special plan for you and all the Jews. There will be 144,000 Jews that will evangelize the world during the tribulation. The Jews have a great part in God's plan. However, the one statement you made about the Jews waiting for the Temple to be rebuilt is true. And it states so in the Bible. And, for your information, the Anti-Christ, during the seven-year tribulation will make a peace treaty with Israel and ALLOW them to rebuild the Temple. However, since the Jews are the arch enemy of Satan (due to the Jews being the chosen people of God), the Anti-Christ breaks the truce with the Jews at the mid-point of the Tribulation ... about 3 1/2 years into the great tribulation on earth. Then the Anti-Christ comes and sits upon the Temple himself and desecrates it, then declares himself as god and demands worship. Satan's plan, from the beginning, is to destroy and eliminate all jews ... therefore thwarting God's plan. Just look at how the Jews are hated, etc. in the world. Wonder why? Because Satan knows his time is coming to an end and, arrogantly I might add, thinks if he wipes the Jews off the earth and turns everyone away from God/Jesus, he will win. Well, he doesn't, but he's sure going to try! Please seek God.

From: (Anonymous)	Date: June 22nd, 2005 02:23 am (UTC)		(Link)
Re: God is Grieving

as a future mathematician, I know theoretically that everything in the universe has an opposite. The adversary is theoretically god's opposite. We treat it as physical being not a spiritual force. It is known that the adversary control the snake that told adam and eve to eat from the tree of good and evil(knowledge) There is a opposite creation story in Judaism called Lilith(http://ccat.sas.upenn.edu/~humm/Topics/Lilith/lilith.html) .She is rumored to be adams first wife before eve was created. Ill give you the website to research Lilith if interested
In the universe we understand there is a balance between the opposites in order for there to be existence. Take the adversary away there would be no force of change. So, there could be no existence. It was the adversary that lead adam and eve to eat from the tree of good and evil. What happens when the adversary is destroyed? Can there be a heaven? we will never know because we all be dead one way are another before we go there. Plus, there is no change in heaven meaning it is pure light (nothingness), which parallels pure darkness (nothingness). 0 = 0 creates perfect order. it doesn't matter which direction we go. the universal law of entropy (degradation) or (weakening) catches up sooner or later
If you got this far, one of the main jobs as a jew is tikkun olam (repairing the world) by becoming one (echad) or (integrating our ideas). There is a belief that each of us good or evil carries a piece that was part of god (the perfect order) or (universe) when it differentiated (separated). a lot who study religion don't realize that in there teachings that god is not perfect. Creation (separation from god) is the example that shows it. Why create? god can't be alone unless it separates from us(forms of itself) or (images)! why is it the jews job to put it back together (tikkun olam)? now you'll have to answer that one. also, why would god want to be alone? why not remain a perfect source of light? We know that there are stroies of god interacting, but is it possible for god who seperated itself from us to modify its creation?

From: vampire_logos	Date: June 14th, 2005 04:24 pm (UTC)		(Link)

Absolutely. All one needs to do to see that Buddhism IS a religion is to visit Thailand for a while. They are DEFINITELY praying with the typical hand prayer gesture (the "way" or "wey") they prostate themselves in front of an altar and while burning the appropriate number of incense they pray to Buddha to grant their wishes/desires. Typically (in Asian/Oriental fashion) they pray for good luck. The smoke "carries their prayer to heaven".

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