Vexen Crabtree 2015

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Vexen Crabtree's Live Journal

Sociology, Theology, Anti-Religion and Exploration: Forcing Humanity Forwards


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Vexen Crabtree 2015
vexen

What I Would Do If I Was God

What Would Vexen Do If He Was God

What I Would Do If I Was God:
  • Put everyone in heaven
  • Eradicate evil
  • Not Create People Who Will Sin
  • Cancel Religion
  • Dispense with the Food Chain: All Beings to be Fed with Manna from Heaven!
So Why Doesn't God Do These Things?

I go into a little more detail on the page of how each is possible and what each means!

I almost believe in you! But...

Therefore everyone who gets created are those who freely chose to be good people. Simplicity itself! No-one sins, no-one wants to do wrong, yet everyone still has free will. It's just that those who chose badly were never created.

To choose badly is a trait of a being. How does one choose badly if that one does not exist? Is there an other way to existence than creation?

Plus often we only know a choice is a bad one from having seen people make mistakes before us.

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For a start your first one makes the last one pointless. Not that i'm too sure about the first one. I have often pondered weather the point of this life is to genorate exsperiences to take with us to the next (Only one of many possibilities). Without knowing the true nature of heaven (and lets face it the living part of humanity really hasn't got much of a clue on the subject) I'm not in any rush to get there early.

No, technically only the first point mattered. With that done, there would be no need for any of the others points.

Your comment on experiences is what I call the "Experience Theodicy", there are some major problems with it that have been explored historically.

With everyone in heaven, there would be no "next life" for anyone to take experience /to/. Also, if we take experiences from "this life" to a "next life", then really it's just one big life, not two seperate ones, so the stance is self-contradictory.

Your comments on heaven depend on which version of heaven you're talking about. There is a wealth of information on the Christian version of heaven, on the Muslim version (only vaguely similar), and on Greek and other heavens. There are many forms of afterlife believed in by many different people.

I do agree if that heaven exists (why on Earth would it?, that's what I want to know!), we have no way of knowing what it's like. Especially as when Humans report knowledge or experience of heaven, we've invariably come up with a dozen different visions!

I've never heard a sensible description of what heaven is, where it is, why it exists, how we survive death to get there, etc.

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I may get board of manna after a little while...unles it's the cool sort that changes taste to be whatever you wnat it to be.

*offers you whatever it takes to make you believe in Vexen*

Of course it'll taste like whatever you want! It'll even have "random flavour" functionality!

Don't listen to naysayers like Penny... http://www.livejournal.com/users/pennypenny/5840.html

She warns (in so many words) that I may well give everyone whatever flavour they choose... but... really, I *wouldn't* make all the existing flavours into chocolate flavours! *tuts*

I could be serious about this but...

4. Cancel Religion
Well, if I was God, I would appear to everyone simultaneously and tell them what the truth was. There would be no more confusion, no more silly religions, no more mistranslations of God's word. I would tell everyone what I wanted them to know.


Or maybe we just need regularly updated versions to keep up with the times. Keep us aware of any changes. Kinda like the Ikea catalogue.

Would there be an opt out tick box?

Re: I could be serious about this but...

No there'd be no Opt-Out box! Mua ha ha! SPAM, DIRECTLY TO YOUR BRAIN!

Hello Vexen. It's an honor to comment on your journal. I've spent hours reading the writings on your vexen.co.uk site. You are a genius. Seriously, you should compile everything into a book someday.

About your "if Vexen was god" article, I would agree with you that all of the changes you would make would be improvements from how things are now. But I think you made things a little more complicated than they really need to be. If I was God, I would realize that there is no need for a physical universe. Happiness is the only "good". So just create an infinite amount of happiness and nothing else. The only reason people have actions, is because of their desires. And desires are caused by pain or discomfort. If there was no discomfort, no one would be motivated to do anything. Also, the free will problem is really a non-issue. http://www.hedweb.com/hedab.htm

If you have the time, I was wondering what you thought of the utilitarian philosophy of Peter Singer.

Thanks dude :-)

I agree, the page was deeply over-complicated. It took a mix of we consider to be good (a sense of self, choice, etc), but only because I wanted people to see more clearly what my points were. In reality, of course, I would have only created happiness! But the premise (in order to avoid such mentally-handicapping utopian creations) of the page is what I would do if I was God *now*, in this Universe, and not what I would have done if I was the actual original creator. Or something.

Beyond a certain level of thought, the entire concept of creation, 'happiness', etc, becomes nonsensical. I wanted to make my points whilst keeping the text Human.

"The only reason people have actions, is because of their desires"

You are... a Buddhist...

I've never read Peter Singer.

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hail vexen almighty ;-)

(Anonymous)
well first of all you have nicely made sites,very informative
second i wish to say :
the hole ide of the gods making us (the word "elokim" is plural-that means gods and not a god or perhaps the yin yang for the first "man" was created as a hermaphrodit and then asked if it wishes to see itself from a side thus becoming adam and lilith and it was only after lilith went to ashmodai the demon king-consider this another name for the devil..she didn't apritiate the gods making her lay benieth adam..go figure..hehe..only then he made eve from his rib wich is the only bone in the human body wich doesn't include bone-brain fluid within itself)was for us to have a "free" will and for them to suduce us
explanation:
best description was made by the great al pachino in "the ddevil's advocate"
when he said that he is the last humansit left (maby there where more in the start) and the hole "look but don't touch" thing..brilliant...let's just assume that this is all a play and a good play must be with some improvisation i belive that it was ment to be a comedy and i also belive that the gods have a twisted sence of humor....you can bet they'r laughing their..whatever off right now mate...but for that reason exactly we are delt with the cards we already have..notice that in order for you to ask the right question you need to know half of the answer already..it's a paradox.. and we do not..i repeat do not know the difference between god and evil yet...the only thing we learned perfictly so far is how to cheet ourselves and others..i suppose that's why we are still alive...hehe..
aaa..never mind all that
enjoy every waiking moment
live free and die well..hehe..
cheers

io pan

Well, I'm going to debate some of your ideas. I'm not great at this sort of thing, but let me try. Sorry that I don't go completely in order, but anyway:

3. Never Create People Who Will Sin

God never created people to sin, but Satan tempts us with things we want and we sin. Easy as that. Everyone has sinned, so your idea of being God is actually worse than the God you describe so negatively.

2. Eradicate Evil

Evil can be traced directly to Satan, who was formerly an angel to God. Satan was banished to Hell, and Satan and his angels/demons are the sole reason Hell was created. But God isn't going to destroy Satan all evil, because He plans to bring us to heaven where we are safe from evil anyway. After all of that, Satan and all sinners will be thrown into the lake of fire.

1. Put Everyone In Heaven

Except, God doesn't hover over snapping a whip at us and forcing us to follow Him. He gives us the same free will that I know you talk about in several articles. We are capable of sinning and we do sin. All of us. But sinners can repent of their sin to enter Heaven, but those who continue to sin don't belong and may not even enjoy being in Heaven. If we can sin without consequence, people will sin even more often than they already do, and Heaven wouldn't be heaven for everyone if there was sin there like on Earth.

4. Cancel Religion

Actually, I will agree that religion today has many flaws. However, religion was not designed to be nearly as strict as people take it to be today. I won't mention any because there are man-made flaws in all religions, but they are man-made. Also, like I assume you meant, there are many different religions all over the world. This is again because God gives us free will.

5. Dispense with the Food Chain: All Beings to be Fed with Manna from Heaven!

Um, this is probably a more interesting idea than the previous four, but in Heaven, we can't go hungry or thirsty because we'll be living forever, and you did mention putting everyone in Heaven before this one. I really don't know how to argue with this one so I'll just stop now.

Satan - vs - God

(Anonymous)
SATAN'S DESCRIPTION AND DEEDS
Who Is Satan?

II Corinthians 2:11 says "Lest Satan should get an advantage of us: for we are not ignorant of his devices."

Before we discuss some of the devices of Satan, we first need to know who he is. The name "Satan" comes from a Hebrew word signifying an adversary, an enemy, and an accuser. In God's Word, we discover that Satan is God's enemy and is against all for which God stands. He is the archenemy of good.

Surprising as it may seem to some, Satan was not always evil. In the beginning, he was an angel created in perfection and beauty. Angels were given a will with a free moral choice, and "Lucifer" (Satan's name before he was cast out of heaven) chose to do evil and rebelled against God. He was cast out of heaven to the earth because of his sin. His present domain is limited to the earth and hell.

Isaiah 14:12-15, "How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations! For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north: I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most High. Yet thou shalt be brought down to hell, to the sides of the pit."

Satan's sins were pride and covetousness. He desired God's throne and set his will against God's will. Five times he said, "I will" in this portion of Scripture.

This is still man's sin today: the refusal to do God's will, with the same attitude of "I will." Satan chose to rebel and it brought him down to hell. Men are making the same choice today and those who rebel will ultimately go down to the pit (hell) with the devil.

Lucifer had been gifted with beauty and had walked upon the holy mountain of God. But even with all this, he was not content with his position and by trying to usurp God's authority, sin entered into him when he attempted to overthrow God's kingdom.

Ezekiel 28:12-19, "...Thus saith the Lord God; Thou sealest up the sum, full of wisdom, and perfect in beauty. Thou hast been in Eden the garden of God; every precious stone was thy covering, the sardius, topaz, and the diamond, the beryl, the onyx, and the jasper, the sapphire, the emerald, and the carbuncle, and gold: the workmanship of thy tabrets and of thy pipes was prepared in thee in the day that thou wast created. Thou art the anointed cherub that covereth; and I have set thee so: thou wast upon the holy mountain of God; thou hast walked up and down in the midst of the stones of fire. Thou wast perfect in thy ways from the day that thou wast created, till iniquity was found in thee. By the multitude of thy merchandise they have filled the midst of thee with violence, and thou hast sinned: therefore I will cast thee as profane out of the mountain of God: and I will destroy thee, O covering cherub, from the midst of the stones of fire. Thine heart was lifted up because of thy beauty, thou hast corrupted thy wisdom by reason of thy brightness: I will cast thee to the ground, I will lay thee before kings, that they may behold thee. Thou hast defiled thy sanctuaries by the multitude of thine iniquities, by the iniquity of thy traffick; therefore will I bring forth a fire from the midst of thee, it shall devour thee, and I will bring thee to ashes upon the earth in the sight of all them that behold thee. All they that know thee among the people shall be astonished at thee: thou shalt be a terror, and never shalt thou be any more."

From these verses, we see that God did not create Lucifer evil, but made him perfect. By Satan's own choice, he became evil and was cast out of heaven.

Re: Satan - vs - God

(Anonymous)
SATAN CAST OUT OF HEAVEN

The Lord never meant for evil to exist. It was simply the opposite of good, and since it takes a free will for evil to come into existence, Lucifer was the first created being to exercise his will against God. Since that time, others have followed. Satan caused a third of heaven to fall with him by influencing other angelic beings to make war against God (Revelation 12:4a). They too were cast out of heaven. They have since become evil spirits due to their choice. They now roam the earth, with Satan as their leader and master. These invisible supernatural beings still have power, but it is directed toward evil works of darkness. Satan is still ruling in the earth today, not only over the evil spirits, but also over evil men who choose the same path of rebellion against God. He is the dark prince of this world. We can see a glimpse of his evil wisdom, strength, glitter, and his inevitable end by reading the previous passages. We must remember that he has only limited power, but nevertheless he does have power, and those who do not know him and his devices inevitably become his victims.

JESUS DEFEATS SATAN

Those who are "born again" and filled with the Spirit of God have no need to fear this evil foe as he has been defeated by our God. Jesus defeated him and stripped him of his power two thousand years ago. Jesus paid the price of our sins on the cross and then rose from the dead bringing life to all who would follow Him. Satan's authority has been taken away from him. We now have authority over him through Jesus Christ. "I am he that liveth, and was dead; and, behold, I am alive for evermore, Amen; and have the keys of hell and of death" (Revelation 1:18).

Revelation 12 records the account of Satan's overthrow by Christ. We are first given a vision of what takes place in heaven, then the Bible reveals the earthly scene:

Revelation 12:7-12, "And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels, And prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven. And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him. And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of his Christ: for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night. And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death. Therefore rejoice, ye heavens, and ye that dwell in them. Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time."


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If I was God I would let the human race know I didn't create them specifically, that they don't have souls, when their time up it's up, that I only pop in every now and again to see how their getting on ( partly because their constant refusal to take responsibility for themselves and begging me to do things for them is, at best, tedious ) and that it's really up to them, collectively, where they go from here. oh and that the Bible is their own invention and no matter how well intentioned that Jesus chap was he was pretty deluded but all the same pretty harmless ( though the same canot always be said of his followers ;) and next time someone claims to speak for me to tell them to stop embarassing themselves but also to treat that person as ( hopefully harmlesly ) insane.

With a little side line reminder that what might be "good" in one situation, or point of view, is often "bad" in another so to look more carefully at the overall context.




God

(Anonymous)
Well, last time I checked you were not god.

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What about the Apocrypha?

The Apocrypha is fantastic! Some of the most utter drivel you can imagine but entertaining...

I often point this out to Christains (including this one but as per usual she ignored my point entirely) that if they believe everything in the regular Bible they have to believe in St John fighting dragons because it was by the same people...

Bible

(Anonymous)
As a Christian, I believe every word in the Bible is true. However, no where in there does it mention John fighting dragons. I really don't know what you are reading. Just pick up a Bible and read it from cover to cover and you will see. Also, God would not write an instruction book for us (the Bible) and have one part correct and another part incorrect. It is either all right or all wrong. Please, find a good born-again Bible teacher!

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From The Annoying Christian You Find Intolerable

(Anonymous)
Vexen, please tell me why you are sure that God does not exist? I'm curious as to how you came to such a positive conclusion.

Re: From The Annoying Christian You Find Intolerable

It's not a "positive conclusion", it's a truth by default. That means: I only really know that something exists if I see some reason that it might exist, or some evidence, etc. For example, if I did not understand the scientific experiments that led to the discovery of the atom, I would not believe in the atom simply because I didn't know what one was.

If everyone who explains God to me fails to do so convincingly or with good reason, I will continue not believing. As I've been searching for the truth in religion for a long time, I am sure there is no God; or if there is a God it has not granted me the type of intellect that believes in God. Whatever the reason, the idea of gods just doesn't make sense to me.

Annoying Christian

(Anonymous)
How did you come to dislike evangelical Christians? You seem to tolerate the false Christians. Why?

Re: Annoying Christian

(Anonymous)
what is a "true" christian? what IS a "false" christian? There is no way to he sure, both versions that condemn each other can equally use the Bible and the theology to justify their positions.

If the people whom claim to follow the one true god of the one true faith can't even agree, what good is it???

How do you know that Allah,Vishnu,or Odin isn't the true god,or perhaps the Isrealite god w/out the christ-cult leader?

In Reason:
Bill Baker

If I were God, I'd make everybody else equal to God (or create them with the potential to "grow" to that status.) Then Lucifer would never have had reason to rebel in the first place, and we'd all be friends.


HAIL THE ALLMIGHTY VEXEN!!!

(Anonymous)
...GOD OF COMMON SENSE! ~smile~

In Reason:
Bill Baker

Re: HAIL THE ALLMIGHTY VEXEN!!!

(Anonymous)
I am joking of course,since I am the god of common sense,LoL!!!

HAIL YOU,HAIL ME, GODDAMNIT HAIL US ALL!!!

In Reason:
Bill

What if you weren't so benevolent?

(Anonymous)
You mentioned what you would do as an infinitely merciful, patient, etc. god but you don't mention what you would do as a god with the personality you possess right now.

?

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