2005

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Vexen Crabtree's Live Journal

Sociology, Theology, Anti-Religion and Exploration: Forcing Humanity Forwards


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The Four Dimensions and the Immutability of God

New Page: "The Four Dimensions and the Immutability of God" by Vexen Crabtree (2007)
  1. Two, Three and Four Dimensional Objects
  2. Existing Outside of Time
  3. The Immutability of God
I haven't got access to any of my physics books (like John Gribbon's books) that no doubt have some commentary on issues like these... so for now this page is merely a bit of a rant.

if god sees all of our dimension as a large sculpture of sorts, couldnt different parts of that "sculpture" cause different emotional responses. Couldnt this mean that god wasnt immutable in every way, but perhaps immutable in the way that he reacts to certain situations?

1. Experience

I like your response, it ties the abstract notion of all creation into terms comparable with human experience. But, know that God's experience of the sculpture of reality would not be like ours. It is omniscience, and knows every detail of the sculpture it made, I do not think that in such a state it would ever feel a phenomenon of "looking" at a particular piece of it, and "then" having an emotional reaction. I think that would only occur if it didn't have an innate knowledge of what it was about to look at; due to its omniscience, any feelings it has to any part of its sculpture would be as eternal as its knowledge of the feature.

2. Immutability

I know what you're saying: a perfect computer's reaction to certain events would be reactions, if they were unchangeably perfect. But that is not God's situation. Events occur in time; reactions to situations only occur if you are a finite being effected by the passage of time. As time for God is part of creation, which God knows inside and out, from beginning to end, there is no appropriate "time" for god to have a reaction to any particular element. All reactions would have been instant the moment that a creator god existed.

I see what you are saying from a time standpoint, if god is immutable and above time, he wouldnt be effected by change in time and thus couldnt change his reactions to suit a situation, because he only has one situation, his immutable existence. I just cant wrap my head around god being more of a truth or entity outside of emotion than a entity with judgement and will of it's own. Since our universe or dimension is subject to the flow of time, isn't it possible that god would only be able to see the part of the sculpture that is coming into existence at a certain time? It would seem to me that his perfection would allow him to be immutable in this case, and still allow him to react to to events. So while the passage of time doesn't change or effect god, he can only see what is happening now. i know there are tons of holes in what I just said, and I am looking forward to your response.

Philosophical contradiction:

I think making God subject to time in the way you say contradicts its omniscience. Imagine if God was subject to time and was omniscient: At any time, looking at a particular piece of the scultpure, God would still (due to omniscience) know every detail that was yet to come, and therefore, would still be a passive observer-creator, all of whose reactions would have already happened. Omniscience would override the time-subjection solution you postulate.

Christian contradiction:

Christians would point out some relevant bits of scripture, such as references to the "book of life" which has peoples' names written in it for all eternity: God is clearly made out to be beyond time and omniscient, knowing precisely which parts of the sculpture would be judged worthy much later on that at the present time.

If god knows every possible outcome, that still maintains his all knowingness, and allows for the free will of each human being, maybe instead of a sculpture, its more of a tree, where time prunes the branches. God can see where every single branch could lead, but our free will in conjunction with time is what prunes decides the actual course of events. If he knows every point of the past and the future, then there is no present. But we experience the present.

I see what you're saying with regards to free will of mankind, and although I'd like to debate those points I think they are best discussed on the God Contradicts Free Will thread instead of here. Please comment there, it could do with some of your intelligent input TBH!

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