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![[info]](http://p-stat.livejournal.com/img/userinfo.gif) vexen | |
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New page: "The Number 12: Disciples, Tribes and the Zodiac" by Vexen Crabtree (2007):
Why is the number respected my mathematicians and mystics? On what basis do such opposite mindsets come to agree that such an arbitrary number is worth getting excited about? Let's see!
- The Mathematics
- The Zodiac
- The 12 Tribes of Israel, 12 Disciples of God
- Conclusions
The conclusion reads (briefly; many interesting tid-bits are iterated through first!):
When you see the number twelve, watch out. If the number is employed in a practical sense to divide time, measurements, or angles, then the chances are it makes awesome mathematical sense to utilize such a factorable number as the number twelve. But if you see it used in a superstitious, religious, magical, paranormal, holy or weird way, be warned that it is based on ancient sun-worship, star warship, and ridiculous astrology. As a species we have been using it to divide the solar realm into twelve divisions, assuming that each one is ruled by a personification, a god, a divine being, a teacher, a prophet or a son of the sun. Now we understand what stars, planets and stellar objects are, it makes no sense to retain the mystical, nonsensical connotations of the 'holy', 'perfect', 'divine' or 'special' number 12. Such superstitions have made their way into major religions; there are 12 tribes of Israel as founded by the 12 sons of Jacob, the 12 disciples of Mithras and Christ, the 12 Gods of Olympus and according to Shi'a Muslims, 12 successors to Muhammad. The number 12 is useful because we use a base 10 numbering system (using 10 digits: 0123456789). It makes no sense to say that Gods would use a base 10 numbering system: Therefore gods would not divide the skies, their sons, their chosen ones or the message into twelve parts just because we have ten fingers! So applaud the usefulness of number 12... but watch out for those who are deluded by the pagan, irrational, magical and nonsensical claims made about it! It is, after all, only a number. Tags: 12, 144, astrology, disciple, disciples, factors, god, gods, israel, jacob, mathematics, olympus, religion, sons, superstition, tribes, twelve
Current Location: Mönchengladbach, Germany
Listening To: Wumpscut's "Totmacher" by Haujobb
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| From: (Anonymous) |
Date: September 5th, 2007 11:58 pm (UTC) |
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12 Tribes of Israel
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I really don't understand the point of what you are getting at with the number 12. However, the 12 Tribes of Israel are REAL, even if you don't believe in God. They are Jacob's 12 sons, which are the 12 Tribes of Israel. They EXIST historically. Actually, the perfect number of God is 7, not 12. Also, the 12 Tribes of Israel, the land of Israel and the Jewish people are VERY important to God, because Heaven has the 12 tribes all over it. This is why: Revelation 21:10-14
"And he carried me away in the Spirit to a mountain great and high, and showed me the Holy City, Jerusalem, coming down out of heavem from God. It shone like a jasper, clear as crystal. It had a great, high wall with TWELVE gates, and with twelve angels at the gates. On the gates were written the names of the TWELVE tribes of Israel. There were three gates on the east, three on the north, three on the south and three on the west. The wall of the city had TWELVE foundations, and on them were the names of the TWELVE apostles of the Lamb (Jesus)."
Ever notice how the whole world is focused on Israel and what happens there??? Here are some helpful hints: God made the Jewish people, starting with Abraham, His chosen people. He made eternal covenants with them. Jesus was Jewish, from the line of David. Jesus (the Jewish Mesiah), is the son of God that He sent to pay for all of humanity's sin. So, the Jews and their land are very important to God. Be VERY careful of how you treat the Jews and the land God gave them. For God said in Genesis 12:1-3
"The Lord had said to Abram, "Leave your country, your people and your father's household and go to the land I will show you. I will make you into a great nation and I will bless you, I will make your name great, and you will be a blessing. I WILL BLESS THOSE WHO BLESS YOU, AND WHOEVER CURSES YOU I WILL CURSE."
Got to love the Jews! Praise the Lord!
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From: vexen |
Date: September 7th, 2007 06:17 am (UTC) |
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Re: 12 Tribes of Israel
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“According to Sherwin Wine, the major exponent of Humanistic Judaism, the traditional conception of Jewish history is mistaken. In his view, Abraham, Isaac and Jacob never existed. Furthermore, the Exodus account is a myth: 'There is no historical evidence to substantiate a massive Hebrew departure from the land of the Pharaohs. As far as we can surmise, the Hebrew occupation of the hill country on both sides of the Jordan was continuous. The 12 tribes never left their ancestral land, never endured 400 years of slavery, and never wandered the Sinai desert.' Moreover, Moses was not the leader of the Hebrews, nor did he compose the Torah. In this light, it is an error to regard the biblical account as authoritative; rather it is a human record of the history of the Israelite nation, the purpose of which is to reinforce the faith of the Jewish nation.”
"Encyclopedia of New Religions" by Prof. Christopher Partridge, p118
Other historians such as Prof. Bart Ehrman, etc, have also pointed out that there is little historical evidence behind such symbolic stories in the Hebrew Scriptures. |
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| From: (Anonymous) |
Date: September 7th, 2007 02:47 am (UTC) |
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Re: 12 Tribes of Israel
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Let me ask you this, if you say the 12 sons of Jacob are "mythical," do you also believe that Jesus never existed either??? And, if your answer is yes to all of the above, I would then ask you if you also think "Muhammad, the so-called "prophet" of the Muslims, never existed either and was "mythical." Which would lead me to believe that you don't think Abraham ever existed either. And, if that's so, you need to make a trip to Israel (me and my husband did) and tell me why so many places, tombs, etc. that are mentioned in the Bible ACTUALLY exist. I mean the land of Israel exists and it's mentioned in the Bible. I don't mean to get off track, are you one of those who believe there is no "absolute truth." And, if so, if there is no "absolute truth", then how can it be "absolutely true" that there is NO "absoulte truth?"
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From: vexen |
Date: September 7th, 2007 06:28 am (UTC) |
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Re: 12 Tribes of Israel
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1. Correct: No 12 sons of Jacob. It is a mythical, pagan tradition to separate God's domains into 12 because ancient astrologers' first divided the stars into 12 zodiacs, based on certain heavenly bodies they could sometimes see, such as Mars. 2. Yes: "Jesus did not exist" by Vexen Crabtree (2002) 3. Muhammad definately DID exist; he and a band of early Muslims did wage war on their neighbouring pagans, and were often victorious (or sneaky). There are multiple recorded sources on both sides (i.e., Muslim and Pagan) documenting the rise of the Muslims and specifically talking about Muhammad. These accounts were largely created during Muhammad's time; i.e., there is genuine historical evidence. Whereas for Jesus and Jacob, there is no evidence for their existence, and specific evidence that casts doubt on their existence. 4. Jenny Roberts in "Bible Facts" does indeed go on such a tour of Biblical holy places; many are real places although moden-day equivalents sometimes only share the name, and not the actual physical location, of their forebears. The Bible is not a completely made-up fiction; there are elements of truth, but the major characters are often symbolic. This is simply a result of the psuedopigraphical, highly symbolic (i.e., word games; which we today completely miss), and dramatic, way in which mid-early Jews wrote. 5. I believe in absolute truth. "Subjectivism and Phenomenology" by Vexen Crabtree (2000). And I believe that in the search for truth, evidence is the guard against irrational wish-fulfilment. Doesn't it say something that theist Christians in Christian lands think that the Christian God is true, while theist Muslims in Muslim lands think the Muslim God is true, whilst atheist Lao Tze and Dao adherents in the East, think their own beliefs are true? If religions were true, the same things would be consistently discovered, and stories wouldn't be passed around like... well, stories.  “Tell a devout Christian that his wife is cheating on him, or that frozen yogurt can make a man invisible, and he is likely to require as much evidence as anyone else, and to persuaded only to the extent to which that you give it. Tell him that the book he keeps by his bed was written by an invisible deity who will punish him with fire for eternity if he fails to accept every incredible claim about the universe, and he seems to require no evidence whatsoever.”
"The End of Faith: Religion, Terror and the Future of Reason" by Sam Harris, p19
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| From: (Anonymous) |
Date: September 10th, 2007 02:19 am (UTC) |
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Re: 12 Tribes of Israel
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If Abraham did not exist, then why do the Muslims claim him to their father, as do the Jews???? Well, it's because he was the father of both the Jews and the Arabs! Abraham first had Ishmael (son of Hagar and Abraham). You see, God promised Abraham and Sarah they would have ason who would be a blessing to all mankind (Isaac). However, although they believed God, when 10 years had passed and they still did not have a son, they "thought" God might intend for them to have their promised son another way. So, taking things into their own hands instead of waiting and having faith in God's promise (like all good Christians do every now and then), Sarah told him to have sex with Hagar, their Egyptian handmaiden, and have a child with her. Well, Hagar got pregnant and had Abraham's son, whom they called Ishmael. However, God did give Abraham and Sarah the "promised" son after Ishmael, whom they named Isaac. About the time Ishmael was about 13 years of age, Ishmael began to "resent" Isaac because he knew that he was the son God was going to make a blessing and inherent all the promises of God. God did not tell Abraham and Sarah to take things into their own hands and have their own son and God let them suffer the consequences of their actions. Hence, that is the beginning of the Arab/Jewish conflict that is going on to this day. So, there's the proof they share the same ancesteral father (and both claim him as so). This proves the existance of Abraham. And as far as Judiaism and Christianity being two "different" religions is false. Because if you read Romans 11:19 "Branches were broken off that I might be grafted in." The gentiles, all non-jewish people, were grafted into the Jewish promises and blessings of God through the Jewish Mesiah, Jesus Christ. Therefore, the Jews and gentile "believers" believe in the same Jewish God, the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob! Praise the Lord! Give those who have ears to hear and those who have eyes to see! (I know, you don't get that). Don't worry, you are in my prayers every day Vexen. I love you Vexen ... oh, don't get grossed out, it's "agape" love ... I love you with the Agape love of God. I care about your "eternal" destiny whether you disagree with me or not. :> You see, that's what God really does do for you after you are "saved," ... he just puts a "Supernatural" love for all humanity in your heart. He puts a deep love for "sinful" humanity in your heart (because EVERYONE sins); however, you end up loving the "sinner" and HATING the "sin."
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| From: (Anonymous) |
Date: September 7th, 2007 02:37 am (UTC) |
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Re: 12 Tribes of Israel
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First, God revealed His plan by giving us the Bible to read. That's how He lets all of us know Him and His plan. Why He did not choose another way to let us know, I have no idea. However, I'm not God and I wasn't actually "consulted" by God on ways He could do it. You see, you have a LOW or no view of God. I have a HIGH view of God and don't question Him or His ways (Don't give me a lecture on why I should "question" God because I use to in my unbelief, but now, by the Grace of God, I believe). Yes, there are wars, etc. all around the world; however, everyone pays more attention when it is going on in Israel. Israel is about the size of Rhode Island in America and is the most "contested" land on earth. Just open your mind a little bit and try (I know it's a stretch for you) to "wonder" why that is. I mean the United Nations from day one when God put the Jews back in the land in 1948 has been AGAINST Israel and so has much of the rest of the world with the exception of the United States and England ... and even they waiver every now and then. Why is that???? It is because Satan (Yes, he is alive and well) knows the Jewish people are God's chosen and God made "eternal" convenants with them. So, Satan thinks if he "kills" every Jew on earth, He wins and thwarts God's plan. That's why, from the beginning, the Jewish people have been the most "persecuted," disliked, put to death, and abused people in history, starting with the Egyptians who enslaved them. And, lastly, the reason there is always "war" in Israel is because of the facts I've stated above.
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| From: (Anonymous) |
Date: September 9th, 2007 11:11 pm (UTC) |
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Re: 12 Tribes of Israel
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Because as a true born-again Christian, God has put a DEEP LOVE for the Jewish people in my heart. The WHOLE BIBLE, Old and New Testaments, under the inspiration of God, were written by JEWS. It is a totally Jewish book. JESUS WAS A JEW. The Christian and Jewish God is the SAME God! The Muslim GOd is a MOON GOD. You need to read the book "Why I left Jihad" by Walid Shoebat ... and EX-Muslism Palestinian Terrorist. He will spell it all out for you. Here, and absolute Jew-hating Muslim, By the Grace of God and against ALL ODDS, is born from above (born-again) and God puts a DEEP LOVE for the Jewish people in His heart and now He speaks out against the Palenstinian (Muslim) hatred of the Jews and is trying to evangelize his Muslim family and friends. I can only sum it up this way, talk to any TRUE born-again Christian, and he or she will tell you how God radically changed their lives for the GOOD. Know one can do that EXCEPT God. He did it in my life and the lives of my Christian friends.
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| From: (Anonymous) |
Date: September 9th, 2007 11:32 pm (UTC) |
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Re: 12 Tribes of Israel - And the UN
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You need to do some research into the voting record of the UN and how they have "sanctioned" and "punished" Israel MORE than any other country. You will then have a different view of the UN. THEY ARE NOT Israel's friend. And, also, Judaism is the forerunner to Christianity. One in the same belief in the same God. However, the Jewish people (Not all of them), via God, for reasons as an un-believer have no chance of understanding, has temporarily blinded the Jewish people and cannot "believe in Jesus" at this present time. However, because of God's eternal plan and love for them, covenants with the Jewish people, will pour out His spirit (The Holy Spirit) on them at the "appointed time" and they will believe on the Lord Jesus Christ. You also need to research on the "amazing" love God has put in the hearts of born-again Christians for the Jewish people like NEVER before in History. I believe that is the beginning of God pouring out His spirit on them. Me and my husband will be going to Israel in 2008 with a Christian Missionary Group and living among the Jewish people and just "loving on them" and to let them know we are Christians who are on their side when the world is against them. We will feed their poor and repair their homes, etc., and, by the Grace of God, we get to share Jesus with them, we will do so. But our main purpose is to let them know yes, we are Christians, but that we love them immensely because we thank them for the scriptures and for the JEWISH Mesiah, Jesus Christ.
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