2005

vexen

Vexen Crabtree's Live Journal

Sociology, Theology, Anti-Religion and Exploration: Forcing Humanity Forwards


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The Number 12: Disciples, Tribes and the Zodiac

"The Divine Number 12: 12 Gods, 12 Disciples, 12 Tribes and the Zodiac" by Vexen Crabtree (2007)):

The conclusion reads (briefly; many interesting tid-bits are iterated through first!):

When you see the number twelve, watch out. If the number is employed in a practical sense to divide time, measurements, or angles, then the chances are it makes awesome mathematical sense to utilize such a factorable number as the number twelve. But if you see it used in a superstitious, religious, magical, paranormal, holy or weird way, be warned that it is based on ancient sun-worship, star warship, and ridiculous astrology. As a species we have been using it to divide the solar realm into twelve divisions, assuming that each one is ruled by a personification, a god, a divine being, a teacher, a prophet or a son of the sun. Now we understand what stars, planets and stellar objects are, it makes no sense to retain the mystical, nonsensical connotations of the 'holy', 'perfect', 'divine' or 'special' number 12. Such superstitions have made their way into major religions; there are 12 tribes of Israel as founded by the 12 sons of Jacob, the 12 disciples of Mithras and Christ, the 12 Gods of Olympus and according to Shi'a Muslims, 12 successors to Muhammad. The number 12 is useful because we use a base 10 numbering system (using 10 digits: 0123456789). It makes no sense to say that Gods would use a base 10 numbering system: Therefore gods would not divide the skies, their sons, their chosen ones or the message into twelve parts just because we have ten fingers! So applaud the usefulness of number 12... but watch out for those who are deluded by the pagan, irrational, magical and nonsensical claims made about it! It is, after all, only a number.


Re: 12 Tribes of Israel

vexen

2007-09-06 06:16 am (UTC)

Well if we judge by what *happens* in Israel, then I conclude that your God is actually an evil god of war, not a good god of love, and I suggest you turn your back on it.

Secondly, there is *always* going to be a flare-up point somewhere in the world... are you saying that wherever that is, you can conclude the local religion is the true one? A little arbitrary, don't you think!

Thirdly, you said there are "12" in Heaven BECAUSE of what it says in Revelations. That makes no sense, because Heaven and God's plan would have existed for an eternity before Revelations was even written. You appear to have your cause and effect the wrong way round!

Re: 12 Tribes of Israel

(Anonymous)

2007-09-07 02:37 am (UTC)

First, God revealed His plan by giving us the Bible to read. That's how He lets all of us know Him and His plan. Why He did not choose another way to let us know, I have no idea. However, I'm not God and I wasn't actually "consulted" by God on ways He could do it. You see, you have a LOW or no view of God. I have a HIGH view of God and don't question Him or His ways (Don't give me a lecture on why I should "question" God because I use to in my unbelief, but now, by the Grace of God, I believe). Yes, there are wars, etc. all around the world; however, everyone pays more attention when it is going on in Israel. Israel is about the size of Rhode Island in America and is the most "contested" land on earth. Just open your mind a little bit and try (I know it's a stretch for you) to "wonder" why that is. I mean the United Nations from day one when God put the Jews back in the land in 1948 has been AGAINST Israel and so has much of the rest of the world with the exception of the United States and England ... and even they waiver every now and then. Why is that???? It is because Satan (Yes, he is alive and well) knows the Jewish people are God's chosen and God made "eternal" convenants with them. So, Satan thinks if he "kills" every Jew on earth, He wins and thwarts God's plan. That's why, from the beginning, the Jewish people have been the most "persecuted," disliked, put to death, and abused people in history, starting with the Egyptians who enslaved them. And, lastly, the reason there is always "war" in Israel is because of the facts I've stated above.

Re: 12 Tribes of Israel

vexen

2007-09-07 06:35 am (UTC)

Er... it was the United Nations that created Israel; the UN has always defended strongly the right for Israel to exist.

OK, so, by your evidence you are saying that Judaism is true? Because most Israelis are Jews. Many are secular atheists or Muslims... not even 2% of Israel is Christian... how are your comments supposed to convince me that Christian stories are true, as opposed to Jewish or Muslim ones? I think your own argument is evidence against Christianity being right!

Re: 12 Tribes of Israel

(Anonymous)

2007-09-09 11:11 pm (UTC)

Because as a true born-again Christian, God has put a DEEP LOVE for the Jewish people in my heart. The WHOLE BIBLE, Old and New Testaments, under the inspiration of God, were written by JEWS. It is a totally Jewish book. JESUS WAS A JEW. The Christian and Jewish God is the SAME God! The Muslim GOd is a MOON GOD. You need to read the book "Why I left Jihad" by Walid Shoebat ... and EX-Muslism Palestinian Terrorist. He will spell it all out for you. Here, and absolute Jew-hating Muslim, By the Grace of God and against ALL ODDS, is born from above (born-again) and God puts a DEEP LOVE for the Jewish people in His heart and now He speaks out against the Palenstinian (Muslim) hatred of the Jews and is trying to evangelize his Muslim family and friends. I can only sum it up this way, talk to any TRUE born-again Christian, and he or she will tell you how God radically changed their lives for the GOOD. Know one can do that EXCEPT God. He did it in my life and the lives of my Christian friends.

Re: 12 Tribes of Israel

vexen

2007-09-10 04:34 pm (UTC)

So, in other words, you had a mental episode?

Re: 12 Tribes of Israel

(Anonymous)

2007-09-11 01:31 am (UTC)

Ha Ha! Very funny. NO, I did not have a "mental episode." I'm a very sane and normal member of society. God just changed my heart and life.

Re: 12 Tribes of Israel - And the UN

(Anonymous)

2007-09-09 11:32 pm (UTC)

You need to do some research into the voting record of the UN and how they have "sanctioned" and "punished" Israel MORE than any other country. You will then have a different view of the UN. THEY ARE NOT Israel's friend. And, also, Judaism is the forerunner to Christianity. One in the same belief in the same God. However, the Jewish people (Not all of them), via God, for reasons as an un-believer have no chance of understanding, has temporarily blinded the Jewish people and cannot "believe in Jesus" at this present time. However, because of God's eternal plan and love for them, covenants with the Jewish people, will pour out His spirit (The Holy Spirit) on them at the "appointed time" and they will believe on the Lord Jesus Christ. You also need to research on the "amazing" love God has put in the hearts of born-again Christians for the Jewish people like NEVER before in History. I believe that is the beginning of God pouring out His spirit on them. Me and my husband will be going to Israel in 2008 with a Christian Missionary Group and living among the Jewish people and just "loving on them" and to let them know we are Christians who are on their side when the world is against them. We will feed their poor and repair their homes, etc., and, by the Grace of God, we get to share Jesus with them, we will do so. But our main purpose is to let them know yes, we are Christians, but that we love them immensely because we thank them for the scriptures and for the JEWISH Mesiah, Jesus Christ.

Re: 12 Tribes of Israel - And the UN

vexen

2007-09-10 04:36 pm (UTC)

Judaism is also the forerunner of Islam and the Baha'i Faith... but it doesn't make them true, just like it doesn't make Christianity true just to say it emerged from earlier religion. All religions have done!

Re: 12 Tribes of Israel - And the UN

(Anonymous)

2007-09-11 01:42 am (UTC)

You keep forgetting Islam and "whatever" that other faith is are SATANIC and not of God. When I say the "forerunner" to Christianity, the Jewish Prophets, etc. in the old testament, especially Isaiah 53, "perfectly" predict the coming of Jesus. The scriptures don't mention "Mohammad" or any other "false god" in any way, shape or form. Also, the Jewish ceremony of "sacrificing" the "perfect and spotless" lamb so they would be forgiven of sin (temporarily) was a shadow of the sacrifice of Jesus Christ on the cross (the perfect sacrifice) for our sins. Judaism POINTS to Jesus (Christianity) in all their scriptures. I've read the old Testament and I don't see "anything" that would point to the Muslim religion or any other one. However, as for Ishmael and his "descendants", the Arabs, God did say they would be like "a wild man" never to be tamed and ALWAYS at emnity with their brother (the Jews). Now, gee, you don't have to be a genius to figure out that was written about 6,000 years ago and is true to this day! The Jews and their "half-brothers", the Arabs, DO NOT get along. The Jews call the Arabs their "brothers" because they and the Arabs know their ancesteral father is Abraham. However, unfortunately, the Arabs have been influenced by Satan and seeking to destroy EVERY Jew.

Re: 12 Tribes of Israel

vexen

2007-09-07 07:02 am (UTC)

If it was good for us to know something, and God wanted us to know it, then, God would tell everyone the basic facts straight into everyone's head, and there would be no need for translation errors, scribe errors, endless copying of ancient texts, cultural differences of word usage, etc... that is, if God wanted us all to know certain things.

But I think, if there was a God, it wouldn't really care what our beliefs are. Why would it? It would know and deeply understand the reasons why everyone comes to believe certain things, and comes not to believe other things. With 99% of the Human population, beliefs occurr because of where in the world you are born. God knows this... if it was wrong, it would educate everyone fairly and equally. In other words, if there is a God, it appears to WANT everyone to have different beliefs.

Re: 12 Tribes of Israel

(Anonymous)

2007-09-09 11:36 pm (UTC)

You just don't know God. That's okay ... I didn't know Him until 7 years ago. You cannot possibly understand Him until you know Him.

Re: 12 Tribes of Israel

(Anonymous)

2008-10-22 02:50 pm (UTC)

Ahem, a ittle off topic.






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