Vexen Crabtree 2015


Vexen Crabtree's Live Journal

Sociology, Theology, Anti-Religion and Exploration: Forcing Humanity Forwards

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The Number 12: Disciples, Tribes and the Zodiac

"The Divine Number 12: 12 Gods, 12 Disciples, 12 Tribes and the Zodiac" by Vexen Crabtree (2007)):

The conclusion reads (briefly; many interesting tid-bits are iterated through first!):

When you see the number twelve, watch out. If the number is employed in a practical sense to divide time, measurements, or angles, then the chances are it makes awesome mathematical sense to utilize such a factorable number as the number twelve. But if you see it used in a superstitious, religious, magical, paranormal, holy or weird way, be warned that it is based on ancient sun-worship, star warship, and ridiculous astrology. As a species we have been using it to divide the solar realm into twelve divisions, assuming that each one is ruled by a personification, a god, a divine being, a teacher, a prophet or a son of the sun. Now we understand what stars, planets and stellar objects are, it makes no sense to retain the mystical, nonsensical connotations of the 'holy', 'perfect', 'divine' or 'special' number 12. Such superstitions have made their way into major religions; there are 12 tribes of Israel as founded by the 12 sons of Jacob, the 12 disciples of Mithras and Christ, the 12 Gods of Olympus and according to Shi'a Muslims, 12 successors to Muhammad. The number 12 is useful because we use a base 10 numbering system (using 10 digits: 0123456789). It makes no sense to say that Gods would use a base 10 numbering system: Therefore gods would not divide the skies, their sons, their chosen ones or the message into twelve parts just because we have ten fingers! So applaud the usefulness of number 12... but watch out for those who are deluded by the pagan, irrational, magical and nonsensical claims made about it! It is, after all, only a number.

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Re: 12 Tribes of Israel

According to Sherwin Wine, the major exponent of Humanistic Judaism, the traditional conception of Jewish history is mistaken. In his view, Abraham, Isaac and Jacob never existed. Furthermore, the Exodus account is a myth: 'There is no historical evidence to substantiate a massive Hebrew departure from the land of the Pharaohs. As far as we can surmise, the Hebrew occupation of the hill country on both sides of the Jordan was continuous. The 12 tribes never left their ancestral land, never endured 400 years of slavery, and never wandered the Sinai desert.' Moreover, Moses was not the leader of the Hebrews, nor did he compose the Torah. In this light, it is an error to regard the biblical account as authoritative; rather it is a human record of the history of the Israelite nation, the purpose of which is to reinforce the faith of the Jewish nation.

"Encyclopedia of New Religions" by Prof. Christopher Partridge, p118

Other historians such as Prof. Bart Ehrman, etc, have also pointed out that there is little historical evidence behind such symbolic stories in the Hebrew Scriptures.

Re: 12 Tribes of Israel

I would bet that Sherwin Wine is "secular" and DOES NOT believe in God. Mr. Wine is not God.

Re: 12 Tribes of Israel

You asked for evidence, and there it is, in a professional book on comparative religion by one scholar, commenting positively on the views of another. Whether or not any of them believe in God does not change the historical evidence as to whether or not the 12 tribes of Israel were real. They are a symbolic part of mythology, and will remain that way unless you can find historical evidence to the contrary.

Re: 12 Tribes of Israel

To sum all this up check out hebrew



I am sure it will be painful for you to see, but watch it anyway and find some crapy book to dispute it.

It is simple, obey the ten commandments
follow the dietary laws
pray for israel

and live your life, no religion involved

Re: 12 Tribes of Israel

No religion involved? So then you don't have to obey the ten commandments (half of which are religious, not ethical), and don't have to follow the (religious) dietary laws, and don't have to pray (which is religious). So what was the point of your message if no religion is involved?

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