Vexen Crabtree 2015


Vexen Crabtree's Live Journal

Sociology, Theology, Anti-Religion and Exploration: Forcing Humanity Forwards

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Vexen Crabtree 2015

Brief on subcultures and what they look like

"The Surface Appearance of Subcultures: People Who Dress Funny" by Vexen Crabtree (2000)

Werekitty's word


The term


is probably a little offensive to some people. I don't fit any of those categories really. I wear plain black but I'm not goth, and sometimes I wear colours if I don't feel black. And saying kids before Nu metallers....
and you missed out skaters.... the baggy brigade into nu metal who ne'er are seen without a skate board (called greebo's in milton keynes).

(could someone who knows about furries visit and tell me if I'm a furry?)

Re: Werekitty's word

Wow, we call them grungers to, but you dont have to have a skate-board to be a grunger do you, cos if you do, then my brain is confused! lol

Re: Werekitty's word (Anonymous) Expand
Well not trying to sound stupid etc I thank you for writing the types of goths, I would say I am a cyber goth. I find you to be a really interesting person with and excellent mind and views, most people think sataists are evil etc blah blah but really they have a real good head on their shoulders.
Would love to chat sometime :)

You need to make a distinction for Neds!!
They wear a lot of sportswear, gold chains, rings, white stuff, designer (i suppose they are like trendies but theyre scummier) girls always have hair tied back in scrunchies, wear their sports socks over their trackie bottoms. high-riding baseball caps, and non-understandable neddy language.

Guess they've progressed to chavs????? is that them?? Is all a bit confusing huh??!!!

most intriguing

You are forgetting one - stoners. The thing is, a stoner is either a completely different category, one who doesnt dress alternaive, but doesnt dress trensy. They just look like stoners. The other thing is that all other categorys can be modded by putting stoner in front. A stoner-goth will be gothed up, have mental (but dirty) hair, but most likely just be wearing some off-colour hoodie. A metaller/stoner wont be much different, cept he'll be wearing some manky old trainers, have safety pins in his jeans and always look mashup.

well in my opinion.

Re: most intriguing

Tee hee, I like your mods.

Re: most intriguing (Anonymous) Expand
What a bunch of prejudiced, inaccurate, and above all WRONG shite. It seems you say all "mundanes want to look the same, but you are the people who have a "dress code" - ooh, goths make up WILL BE dark or black, metalheads have NO ILLUMINOUS HAIR, jesus, fair enough be a goth, or whatever, but drop the damn attitude problem you sanctimonius fools

Feel free to reccommend any useful rephrases of the descriptions.

Until then, stop being a prick.

(no subject) (Anonymous) Expand
(no subject) (Anonymous) Expand


I think that this is probaly one of the worst sites that I have been to. You are putting labes on goths, just as goths have been labeled by others. It is very rude. A goth is someone whom expresses themselves through their actions, clothes, hair, etc.
Some people are just naturalyy dark, like myself.
I hope that you'll take into consideration atleast some of my coments. -Raysch

Re: labels

WHY are you gothic?

Re: labels (Anonymous) Expand
Re: labels (Anonymous) Expand

What caused them to be gothic?

What caused people to becom gothic?Is gothic believing in the devil?

Re: What caused them to be gothic?

Goth is a fashion taste, not a theological belief.

You know nothing of gothics


That's got to be one of the funniest comments I've received!

(no subject) (Anonymous) Expand
(no subject) (Anonymous) Expand
(no subject) (Anonymous) Expand


According to your brilliant categories i am a 'trendy' which is to me a townie, and i am NOT a townie. I mix between the two, and there is alot more to what people are than just their clothes. Many more things make a trendy as you call it. Music and attitude also influence greatly the categories people are in. I may sometimes wear trendy type clothes, but not always, but i do not listen to that music. Trendys would listen to sugababes, atomic kitten, blazin squad etc. and i do not. Also it may be visa-versa. I realise you are only trying to help people understand but your statements are far too general.
Sorry, but i dont like being categorized as a trendy, as you may have guessed.
Thankyou for your time x x x

Could you post a description of a "trendy" and a description of a "townie" so I can mention them on the page, then? Cheers.

Re: Rubbish! (Anonymous) Expand
Re: Rubbish! (Anonymous) Expand
Re: Rubbish! (Anonymous) Expand


Why is it that the person who wrote all the descriptions cannot, when people complain, or make a valid point, agree when he is wrong, or apologize. How stuck up are you?

I wrote the descriptions, and if you read my other texts or take part in any of the debates I have, or get to know me, you'll find that I admit error relatively frequently. With light-hearted text like this though, where I open the page by stating that labels are always inaccurate and simplistic, I don't really see why people get annoyed unless they're actively looking for an argument!

Related: Text on "Accepting Criticism"

Re: Idiot (Anonymous) Expand
Depending on the type of trendy, they may also wear burberry and playboy things.

i noticed you had a section on anti superficiality. so how is it that you are classifying people solely on what they wear and none of their political or moral convictions, something that 'individuals' apparantly hold dear?

Read the opening sentances of the page again to understand why I'm doing it.

(no subject) (Anonymous) Expand
reading something someone has written about categorization, i would say that categorization is necessary, but stereotyping is not. if anyone would like to indulge in further discussion about this my email address is it would be useful for a current sociological study i am carrying out.

er.. people you forgot or couldnt define phreaks, pyros and sparkys there are a lot of them out there, do some homework and youll find them, btw is one such community as is


em ok then what if you are a mixture of all? apart from"normal" people? what would you be then?

Boundries and definitions are never complete descriptions of any particular person, only of generalities. No-one fits into one category. But in general, the categories can be used to talk about society.

Re: BIG QUESTION (Anonymous) Expand
Re: BIG QUESTION (Anonymous) Expand


i fink dat we shud not b put under names they cause alot of arguements my school there are fights betweenn goths n trendies n skaters n townies.i fink its all wrong!!!

It is wrong, but, if we are to talk sensibly about cultures, subcultures and trends then it is necessary to use words for practical reasons.

Re: steriotypes (Anonymous) Expand
Ok I don’t really fit any of the stereotypes you mentioned in fact I fit in all of them.
I listen to punk music but I don’t wear drain pipes, I have facial percings and sometimes I have plastic hair, I don’t wear hug amounts of black but I do own a few corsets, and yes I also have a leather jacket, so basically I am a part of all the things you mentioned so what does that make me?

It doesn't make you any single label; no person fits entirely into any label and no label entirely fits any person. They're only ever part of the truth, and always (as they are stereotypes) rely on assumption. So, I do not expect you or anyone else to "fit" them. Just to be able to identify with parts of them, as listed, and for others to be able to identify parts of you, as long as they're careful not to rely on these shallow veneers for any judge of personality.

(no subject) (Anonymous) Expand


i used to be a mettle head, ive spent a lot of time with goths, hippies, nu mettlers and punks but ive never even heard of furries before! wow! it sounds totally far out! thankyou four enlighterning me. it only goes to prove that you may lable but you cant stop people inventing the new.!!!!!

Re: Subcultures

You forgot to include a lot of subcultures on your site, such as hip hoppers/ townies, ravers, nerds, and reggae fans! I'm a hip hopper and there are plenty of us around :)

I can See Where Your getting at through The placeing character 2 Looks side Of Things But U may be mixing fassion Styles With Life Styles or generalisations of character.
Goth as Sutch is these days a character type, Life style And A fassion, there Is the Fassion that is the dark cloths the black and white make up etc But that spawned From the original goth caricteristics In People Which Was to have the Open Minded veiw to The world and that they Look Into The alternate or the "dark Side Of Life" because of this Interest they can Occasionally become overwhelmed by this Side and deppressed in some situations which Is what Inspires the choice in clothing lol,
nehows as for things like Furries or cybers theres no direct tie to Personality as in Most cases It Is Generally A fassion and mabie a life style in some ways lol.
hehe I Wouldn't say trendies are always directly related 2 chavs(skiprats,townies,neds (in scotland)etc lol) because In quite a few Cases trendie Is just the fassion which Is Incorporated in to the Person types I Know A Few "trendies" Who arnt that bad people so ja know U could have a category for Chavs LMAO But I class it More as a person type lol
:P lol sry if some people dun like what i Said up there Its an educated conclusion you Dont have to accept it If you dont want to :P Bwahaha Oh Well I Needed a Ramble LCOTT In truth we can all Only Be Ourselves and be what we are you Cant be nething other than yourself and when you think of it that Way You may Feel That your allone and try to belong to a Group so far as you Dont feel your on your own though i guess some people just naturally fit the person traits of a group they dont normally acknowledge that:P
jaa whatever lol l88ers

Re:more needed

I am really liking this site . i wanted to let you know about another type of person which a LOT of people i know lean towards. My name for it is Wavvies. Bascially a wavvie is a wannabe chav. They are almost trendies but they tend to not wear the same things as trendies and end up wearing a small amount of burberry of stuff which the chav crowd wear and try to act chav when they clearly are not. They aren't the same as chavs or townies or watever and there not plain wannabes......have i discovered a new stereotype? Lol

p.s, vexen me ( Ruby) and my friend ( leila) think you are very beautiful.

Very interesting. Good job!
But, I was wandering, does everything begin from clothes??? I thought first of all music defines your style. Image is important of course, but it`s really not the main point. You may be dressed like metaller or goth, but might not be such.
Thak You for Your job!


Your right. yeah. Although, sometimes there are people who just dress likea chav or a goth, and are interested in other types of music too. For example, I usually resort eitther to a gothic style, or plain linen trousers, though i still love heavy metal and screamo music. So yeah.......

Love Ruby xxxxx

(no subject) (Anonymous) Expand
found your subcultures thing by searching for new rock boots on google. anyway, read it and would say im metaller but also into ebm. even thouugh i don't wear bright colors or cyberdog clothes. p.s. like your site too

he's just putting a basic measure on them, leave him to it and stop causing arguements.

(no subject) (Anonymous) Expand

no fucking point

you cant catagorise people what is the fucking point!?!?!?
everyone is cant label someone under a stereotype just because how they look.why does anyone care about what categorie they would fall into, you are who you are!

Re: no fucking point

I love you, you are the onbly one that seems to understand the point of being your own person, yopu don;t have to be in a catagory to be who you are, everyone should just leave us the fuck alone but nobody seems to do that because they want to make themselves feel better, they want to do this by saying that everyone is in a catagory that is lower then them, I wish we could talk about this more

ONE QUESTION?...............
if you do catagorise people be a goth,punk whatever.....
how can you define normal?
is there a normal style?
surely if you are a say punk you would see your own style as normal....

Y r people blamin the person who described the categaories? He didn't put them there! this is what the stereotypical view of certain subcultures look like! one person knows atleast one person who would fit into each of these catagories! it doesn't mean that they are any less of a person because they r goths or emos or skaters or even chavs it's just the hype behind the stereotypy - ouu i rhyme! each person has there own individual style and there r plenty more then what r listed here! these subcultures r just the result of people developing and fitting in. the media's influencial input is whats caused it to become a negative thing between the gropus. So don't blame the dudey creator guy he aint 2 blame!

(no subject) (Anonymous) Expand

Vlad Von Junkers

I think they are good definitions of subcultures, but they are not universal. I am from Spain, and here the goths (like me) are a little different (and here are many more types of goths!) The Gothic movement in Europe is very different than the gothic movement in United States. The gothic movement come from the north of Europe, in this region is where you can find the most pure goths!

In Europe, there are a lot of gothics that are dressed like normal people in the work diary days and turn to the gothic style in weekends (like me)

sorry for my horrible english and I gonna see this site more times ^_^

Vlad Von Junkers -Spanish Vampire Gothic-


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