Vexen Crabtree 2015


Vexen Crabtree's Live Journal

Sociology, Theology, Anti-Religion and Exploration: Forcing Humanity Forwards

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Vexen Crabtree 2015

Camden Town

About Camden Town

Its true!

People are only in these businesses for the money now, when once it was a labour of love, so to speak. I remember the days of Kensington market... when almost everything in every shop was original... when Spank first started up and sold crushed velvet and GOTH cloths and no cyber stuff at all! The Cyber shops were a new thing and their clothes were individual and different.

People have a way of commercialising everything... and by buying it we are helping to destroy the individuality we once had.

However, unfortunately now, without making our own clothes, its hard to avoid it! There are so many lables now, that whatever you buy is bound to be something.

I always make it my duty to remember my roots, not let all these big price tags get to me... i'll buy and wear what i like (and of course if i find a cheaper imitation somewhere else, my bank balance will be happier with me :)

I agree with what you say. You hit the nail on the head!!!

info on si

great site, use full links for just simply the best way of life!!

I can't stand the New Rock-ation of Goth culture - the thing I always liked most about Goth was it's non-reliance on labels, now here we are with New Rocks, Swear, Dane, etc...

It's just a relief when I go to a club where hardly anyone is wearing this victim of fashion clothing (unfortunately they've made it next to impossible for me to find a pair of decent boots, something which was not so difficult to do only five years ago)

I can visualize perfectly both the Cyberdog logo in Japanese, and it's Cyber-Dog icon... more pervasive labels.

Actually... I love it all, it's great stuff, but it is worrying nonetheless that they are labels: Complete with overpricing and herd mentality.

Camden (Anonymous) Expand

Camden Town

I am doing some fishing here to see if anyone else has noticed something that I seem to have lately, or if it is just me!
I go to Camden as often as I can, for much the same reasons as every other Goth/alternative. I feel safer and more comfortable, plus I enjoy the view! I also find it very easy to strike up conversation with people and find much in common with them, as opposed to my local town, where people are hostile and suspicious to the point whereby you wouldn't even be interested in talking to them. (Plus they dress funny...mwahahah!)
However, the last few times I have been, I seem to have noticed that there are drastically fewer alternative types around the usual places, ie the high street, the bridge, markets. I have found that apart from the odd person or two, you have to actually go into, say, the Dev to find a population. It used to be that there were so many alternatives that it was 'our place' and the normals and mundanes generally seemed to respect that and even show interest in our clothing and suchlike. Groups of weirdos walked around, and usually with smiles on their faces (apart from the mopeygoths, bless'em.)
But for the last six months or so, there are trendies everywhere (even in specialist shops) and they are looking at ME funny and sniggering and whispering amongst themselves!! I'm like, 'this is Camden, not Oxford Street for chrissake!! If ya don't like it, piss off!!'
Is it just me? Has anyone else noticed any such phenomena, or am I in such dire need to be around my own kind that I am imagining things that aren't there? I am aware that Camden does tend to get livelier in the summer months, to be fair. But two words keep creeping into my mind, despite efforts to stop them...KENSINGTON MARKET. Nuff said.

Re: looking stupid

If people are worried about looking different, bring pointed at in the streets, not being able to get a job and generally being mistaken for film extras from Judge Dredd, then stop being a goth. Being trendy or a goth is the same thing - you are a fashion victim, just be normal you dork.

Re: looking stupid (Anonymous) Expand

you forgot some people....

In yr list of CATEGORIES you forgot some people who enjoy Camden as well and do not fall into the titles of mundane, regular, or normal....
-Other types of punks that don't follow the mohican, tartan trouser style, like those who are fans of NYC punk or indie punk.
-Riot Grrrls
-Emo kids
-Skinheads (trads not racists)
-Rockabilly / Teddies

Such "categories" have been around longer than Nu-Metal and deserve a mention. Alternative culture should not be limited to those who are goth or metal. Where do the rest of us who despise mainstream society and culture fit in? Don't alienate us like regular people....please.

Re: you forgot some people....

I'd have never have thought to include Mods! And although I'm familiar with Rockabilly, Riot Grrls, etc, I'm not familiar enough to be able to write any text that would do them honour, so could you go write more about each one?


what stalls sell New Rock boots? I am a first timer there and am gettin New Rocks but i dont know what stalls sel them. Plz plz plz help! ANGEL IN DISTRESS! +x+x+x+x

Dozens and shops and stalls along Camden High Street between Camden Lock and Camden Tube sell them, many have front-facing displays so you really can't miss them.

Trendies and labels

I think its funny the way you describe how all us punks wear designer labels these days. I make most of my own clothes, as do a lot of my friends, and none of us buy designer labels. I wear what i think suits me and my style. Even if we wore labels, so f*cking what! It's strange how you feel that you can persecute a group of people that already feel persecuted enough.

Re: Trendies and labels


And of the various subcultures, Punk has succombed least to designer labels, so you don't need to get defensive 'k, Mr(s) Paranoid Pink Fluffy Banana Gimp.

Re: Trendies and labels (Anonymous) Expand

Camden rocks!!

I went to Camden last year and I also fell totally in love with it. I feel so at home there. The market and shops are brilliant. It really is the best place on this planet.
roxie xx

Re: Camden rocks!!

I just came back from a trip to London, and Paris, I hate paris, but love London, Camden Town in particluar . I did notice that there were a lot of people that seemed to be out of place, and even myself being a tourist, noticed this. Every city sorta has a Camden Town spot, I'm from CHicago, and we have one, go down Clark Street, where it intersects wiht Belmont. Camden was so much more, I don't know why, but it just felt so much more homey to me. But anyways, its rocks, I love it there, by far my favorite place in London.


camden is so kool...i spend most my time there in cyberdog...where u find many cybergoths(very nice...-drools-) hehe... :P well.. yeh, camden rocks \m/

Flash Punks and Goths

Ive got news for you, this ex punk/goth was wearing over priced clothes since late 80's..early 90's up to 2001 ish ...when i lost interest ...not saying i dont do it -its just that i now wear d&g AND i wear goth frilly shirts-i simply like them both.
My studded Harley Davidson biker jacket cost £280.00 with a RHCP paintjob! that was in 1991 from Kensington Market.-I have seen similar high quality jackets pre studded sell for 600 quid in the mid nineties-today being a quality /flash/punk or goth = a lot of money, as much as D&G crowd in fact-so its more a choice than a financial thing-you pay your money -take your choice-both are expensive.

I cannot agree more with your comments on the whole trendy/goth thing, gothic clothes are ridiculously expensive, I have found that it is better to just buy what you like, no matter where you get it from, or how much it costs, as long as you are happy with the way you look. I have noticed that alternatives can also be very muscially fascist, and are often inclined to insult trendies as much as they are insulted. This makes them no better than the people they scream bloody murder over.

I felt really confused after being told that i didn't look "goth enough" by my fellow "goths" and the clothes i designed didnt agree with their look.. i was really hurt by this..i think some people can be really confused and do not understand how special being alternative and creative is anymore..some people dont understand what a goth is and they tend to promote gothic culture in the wrong way.. luckily there are people in camden town:-) that share similar views to me

Without wishing to sound like an old b***ard, I have long thought that there is a sad decline of the DIY/anti-commercial ethos in the so-called 'alternative' culture found in Camden and similar areas. "Back in my day" we used to customise our own clothes, scour charity shops and generally have to put a bit of thought into achieving an authentic 'alternative' look. Now, as you say, one stands out if they DONT have the lastest trendy (and expensive) 'alternative' label.

On a different note, can you clarify something for me - i had to do a project at university about the impact of the contraceptive pill on religious life.... I'm usually bad with names but i'm sure i used something written by you - think it was some figures about church attendance in the last few years - does that sound familiar? Incredible co-incidence if so!

Lady of the Lake

check this out - Camden

Industrial Goths

you missed out us industrial goths! unlike trad goths who like gothic building and arched windows and so forth, we like the old industrial building and so forth!

camden style

i'm an italian girl from rome,I'm 16yrs old and I went to london ( with my school ( for a week!
i'm in luv with camden town...the style,the ppl,the clothes and the market!
i cutted my hair ( in camden for only 6 puound!!!!!!
camden town rocks,i really really luv it!

wat the hell we are allowed to call trendies trendies

hi ppl listen to this this man is saying that goths are no better than trendies how dare he we are nothing like them we are just us we all dress diffrently we do not conform well most of us dont some follw/conform to other goths but most of us do not which is why trendies are called trendies bc they conform to wat every body else wants where as we do not do that i am ashamed to say that before the goth scene come about in harlow were i liove i was a trendie but as soon as i caught sight of the goth scene that was it i have been goth now for five years camden is like a second home to me i love it up there and ppl who do not understand wat a goth is should not comment and say we are like trendies bc most of us are nothing like trendies so plz ppl who agree or disagree plz send me an e-mail telling me wat you you think of my comments my e mail address is


i dont think all goths dress the same. I'm a goth and i have friends that are goths too but we have never wore the same clothes.i do argee oyu can get some cheap clothes but the best clothes i've got all cost quite a lot. it's just there not many places to get forget that it costs to get it sent to you from the internet and it can cost the same as it does in a more expensive shop when you add on postage and packaging.

i ave to disagree wit ya last paragraph.

people wear what they feel comfortable in and what they think looks good. so what if a bunch of people wear the same thing? they're only wearing it cause its comfortable and they like the way it looks.

omg camden <333 i need to go tomorrow but no one will come witheth me... =(

cool site. its a shame the black rose doesnt have a website, its such a kick - arse shop.
just thought id say hello.

Black rose web site

It does, I do believe I just came off it while scouring the internet for cheapish goth clothing. Even simple accessories are ridiculously expensive now, I trawl charity shops and love them, but sometimes I see something in another shop and I like it, only to discover it is way out of my price range.
Does ANYONE know any fairly cheap sites. used to be one then closed down *screams in anger and dismay*, which sucks.


i like monkeys


I totally agree, punk and stuff used to be all about no name clothes. But now since more and more trendies take up punk and goth and stuff, thinking it is cool, the prices have rocketed. Must kill all fake rockers!

Lower the prices of good goth stock now Britain! LOL

- HitchedByTheFace :: AntiChrist aka Daniel Gale

Re: Prices

yeah everything in camden is expensive.. but hey at least itll keep ppl who are dedicated to the scene and the ppl who just wna go through a phase away as there nt gna wna spend 50 quid on one skirt, camden scene is perdy and beautiful, yet not practical.. every1 shud kiss and be frends ... camdens kidna depressing now tho... the atmosphere is so much more... tense...judemental.. the sorta thing i wna get away frm... i dno..... the ' alt' scene is fashionable now thanx to busted avril lavingey and evascence ... i gess we;'ll have to w8 a year or so for them to die out... oh well....fingers crossed

i want to goto camden but i feel i'll look ota play..i'm indie / rocker / metalhead :P.....i'll find out when i go =D

it's my first time going, and i need help!!

hi people!!
i'm keep hearing about camden town, and it's sounding reallyy amazing! the problem is that i have never been there before!:(
i want to go there but im not too sure about the place, what if i get lost??! all i need to know is where the main shops are that sells punk/goth/grunge stuff. i need to know where i have to turn as soon as i get out of camden town station, do i turn left/right, and how big is camden!

Re: it's my first time going, and i need help!!

As you come up the escalator turn right at the top, then right as you leave the will be on the high street. The vast majority of shops are on that stretch so you are unlikely to get lost. You will be fine...and love every minute

hey, can i plug the electric ballroom's fabulous market? i've been working there for two years and i think it's one of the few places left in camden still pretty much untouched by the boring commercialism that's taking over the rest of the main road. most of the stalls are run by the people who make the clothes they're selling, on the whole (!) they're very friendly and helpful and its a great place to find (or have made) something that no-one else has got (or at least something everyone else will want). being indoors is a great bonus when it's raining, and as it's quite big it doesn't get packed like the stables. what can i say? go there! tomorrow! or any other sunday!

cheers :)

I do believe it was you or one of you friends that was handing out flyers last time I went to Camden. I was told I was pretty, thanks for the compliment!

I love the Electric Ballroom! The sellers there are really friendly and helpful, plus you can often get more unusual one-of-a-kind items there for cheaper prices.

I would definately recommend it.


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