2005

vexen

Vexen Crabtree's Live Journal

Sociology, Theology, Anti-Religion and Exploration: Forcing Humanity Forwards


Previous Entry Share Next Entry
2005
vexen

Why I am not a Satanist by Rev. Deinsen

http://www.dpjs.co.uk/criticism/deinsen.html
Tags:

Let me take a minute to "react...." (1 of 2)

(Anonymous)

2002-11-06 01:52 am (UTC)

As a Satanist, I've encountered this same set of complaints about the general Satanic philosophy a few times. Actually, it's sort of refreshing to encounter someone who's open-minded enough to take such an objective view of Satanism and to question its philosophical basis as a stand-alone religion. Nevertheless, I think these complaints are the result of one's less than complete grasp of the overall thrust of the Satanic philosophy and the movement at large. I'll do my best to address it in the order it was presented in the essay:


1. Satanism is Reactionary?

First of all, let's clear up a few laws of physics. Nothing is absolutely spawned on its own. All things that exist or occur are really reactions in the first place -- for example, the reaction of an animal's immune system to dangerous invaders. Reaction itself isn't the issue in Satanism, since of course it's a reaction to something. Everything is.

What is unique in Satanism is that while it is indeed a reaction, it is a deliberate reaction. It is a shaped and strategic reaction, designed with full knowledge -- and full admission -- of being so, with all the credit given to Human ingenuity. And while its name is absolutely indicative of its nature, its works stand alone: Satanists are some of the most creative, independant, strong-willed and truly Human people on the planet. While the Satanic movement was borne of frustration at restrictive society, and while the name Satan was surely the sharpest knife to use to cut through those straps, the underlying spirit of Human Freedom is at the heart of the movement, just as it will be the heart of every new movement which seeks to relieve Humanity of unnecessary baggage.

Satanism does indeed stand in stark contrast to the conditions which spawned it -- the ignorance, the fear, and the outright sheepish conformity of the herd. And, yes, like previous movements it will eventually run out of steam (in its current form) as those conditions are met and dealt with. But after all, isn't that sort of the point? If the movement is to correct the wayward path of the herd, and that goal is accomplished, why even bother anymore? Just like any other job -- there's a time to dig the mine, and a time to enjoy the silver.


2. Satanism is Mainly Rhetoric?

You're right. The occult facade of modern Satanism is shallow. In fact where the shock stops, so does "Satanism." But that's part of the genius of the religion. Satanism is not intended to be a permanent religion to suit everyone, or to last for millenia, or to become the next Christianity. The very reason the "religion" is there at all is to provide a link between a modern Humanity which has known religion in various forms for ten thousand years and the next incarnation of Man, a creature entirely trusting and dependant on himself. If Satanism was an esoteric, dogmatic system full of deep and astounding "spiritual truths," who knows how long people might get lost in it? Rather, the facade that is Satanism serves as an adapter between a religious Man and a Carnal, self-fulfilled Man. By at once attacking the obvious lies and hypocrisy of previous religions, and presenting a system of rational self-interest, Satanism draws Humanity away from the illusion of a dual "spiritual" and "carnal" existence, and teaches it to be satisfied in the "carnal" alone. By being shallow, and showing how "deep" religion is folly, Satanism forces the psyche to latch onto the real.

Re: Let me take a minute to "react...." (2 of 2)

(Anonymous)

2002-11-06 01:53 am (UTC)

3. Satanism is too Dependant on Emotion and Human Ego?

Satanism is about unashamed acceptance of who and what you are. Humans have egos, and egos must be fed. That's just the cold hard truth of the matter. Yes, Satanism feeds the ego, but Satanism also makes it abundantly clear to the Satanist that the religion itself does NOTHING. It is not the contrived philosophy of Satanism which feeds the ego, but the Human need for Self-Preservation. Satanism advocates acceptance of this inextricable aspect of our psyche. Believe it or not, that's a good thing -- I tend to think that once our religions stop teaching us to destroy ourselves, maybe we'll be able to stop destroying each other. Just a thought.


4. Satanism misunderstands Independence?

Okay, here the writer seems to have seen the point of Satanism coming, and hid beneath a rock or something. Alright, I'll take it from the top. The self-deification advocated by Satanists is not a call to one's own absolute supremecy over all others to the point of expecting to be worshipped. Rather, it is the removal of the concept of "god" from the empty skies and placing it back where it belongs -- inside the Human Spirit. Any person intelligent enough to make that shift both ritually and practically is going to carry a few basic cannotations along with it. Our first loyalty is always to ourselves, and our next loyalty is to our friends and our family. Then there is the loyalty to Humanity as a single unit in the cosmos. Yes, we are our own gods -- but that simply means that it is our own individual will which directs our path. It's not to say we are totally without need of human companionship or interactions -- although some of us are, like it or not. There is always a basic love among real Satanists for the Human Race (or at least its most admirable components), and therefore, there will always be a basic respect and acknowledgement of human relationships.

5. Satan is an Unworthy Symbol?

Getting back to the first remarks I made here, let me re-iterate that Satanism, being a modern religion of Human self-sufficiency, is not supposed to last forever. Furthermore, it is not the shock value that Satanism is built on. Satanism is built on sound, Human philosophies, and a tangible Human Spirit which will always be the motivating force behind Human endeavors. Satanism as a religion does not contain this spirit, it never has, and it never will. Satanism is simply the first modern religion which has absolutely embraced Human Nature on its own inherent benefits both to the individual and to the community at large.

Surely, like the Serpent Himself, Humanity is like a beast who dons many skins before its time is done. And like every other philosophy, Satanism will meet the end of its usefulness. Satanism has never disputed this fact, and no intelligent Satanist disputes it. As the act of becoming is everlasting, temporal suits of philosophy will always be created, used, and cast away. The unique thing in Satanism is that its inception marks the first time Humans have fully understood and grasped the concept that they themselves are the makers of gods and devils, and as the creators of creators, they are now beginning to awaken to the fact that a Human's power stretches every bit as far as his imagination. From now on, we will not create gods and pretend to be their slaves, but create gods and set them to work for us.

In the larger picture, no single religion will ever be the answer -- it is the inherent desire and drive for evolution which has made Humanity the champion race on Earth, and it is the realization of our own self-creation and self-actualization which will transform Humanity into the champions of a much larger domain.

3..2..1.. Contact

(Anonymous)

2002-11-06 01:57 am (UTC)

Who knows if anyone even reads this stuff?

Anyway, if anyone's interested in my contact information...

WebSite The Devil's Tale (http://www.geocities.com/tdt235/central.html)

E-Mail inferenzum@hotmail.com (mailto:inferenzum@hotmail.com)

Hail Satan!
Rev. Inferenzum

Re: Let me take a minute to "react...." (2 of 2)

(Anonymous)

2005-02-10 10:59 pm (UTC)

Satanism has alot in common w/the anti-faith rationalist movement/pseud-religion called Universism{which aims to unite atheists,agnostics,deists,pantheists,trancendentalists,secular humanists,freethinkers of variuos stripes}, check it out
www.universist.org and www.faithless.org
I'm advocating for Satanaists and Universists to respect each other and aknowledge each iother as kin in the battle against faith{if they are willing to get past the incredibly minor differences in their ideaologies}.

Hail reason.

Bill Baker

Why I am not a Satanist by Empiress

(Anonymous)

2002-11-10 04:41 am (UTC)

I found this essay very refreshing, accurate and articulate. I had reached similar conclusions myself over the years due to my involvement within Satanism (tending to be non CoS).

One group that is not rectionary is the Society of Dark Lily. Not many people have heard of this group, but their teachings, although LHP go beyond the 'Satanic norm'.

Regards

Lyceus

I found the essay interesting, to say the least, though I do feel that the author judged the religion in a method a tad to restrictive to be fair.

I am a Satanist because I agree with LaVey's points, and I sympathize with his philosophies. The author treats Satanism's statements, arguments, and ideologies as more of a 'rule book' than a 'guideline,' which I don't feel is the case.

- Adam

I agree with Empiress. Instead of using some dastardly Christian symbol why not just call yourselves what you really are: agnostics, athiests, or antitheologians? I think you enjoy the shock value of the term and use it in order to unite with other people who share your values. It gives you something to stand for in the same way that religions do for believers. I agree with most of your phylosophy, but would feel foolish telling someone I'm a Satanist or affiliating with a group that calls themselves that. I am just content with accepting that I don't have all the answers and that we have some power to shape our own destiny if we want to.

You sound like a sensible person!

Yes, sometimes the shock factor is part of the appeal:
http://www.dpjs.co.uk/enema.html

And yes, I could simply be an anti-theologian, like Nietzsche, but in most the world religions the anti-theologian is called Satan, or Shaitan, etc, and such beings are listed as the Seventy Seven infernal names, I find pleasure in embracing the symbolism of Satanism and the Satans of the world, so much so that I am actually a Satanist rather than a mere "strong atheist", however I very much understand that Satanism isn't for everyone and many people simply aren't Satanists.

Just a few more thoughts...I understand Satanism isn't for everyone. Like Empiress said, it is a "refreshing" philosophy; however, I can't hardly call it a religion because it believes in nothing but science and being the best that one can be because this life is all you get...etc. Without all the intriguing symbolism it would be kind of a sensible but boring phylosophy that wouldn't even need a following. All the symbolism is just a vice I think La Vey used to suck people in and make a name for himself while using other people's sensible but mundane philosophies and calling it a religion. That's just my opion. And according to one sight supposedly put out by his daughter: http://www.churchofsatan.org/aslv.html , La Vey was a hypocrate himself, a wife beater, an animal abuser, a pathological liar, a child abuser and a fool. Now this sight could have been put out by anybody, even some religious person trying to give Satanism a bad name. It's up to the reader to decide, but I think there might be some truths there. I think Satanism gives people who don't believe in the mainstream religions and sprituality something to stand for and believe in while living in a world full of nothing. I can't say there's anything wrong with that, however, and it is good to empower oneself as the philosophies teach. Satanism will never become mainstream even if a lot of people like myself become disillusioned by the mainstream religions because most people will always associate it with something negative. I don't however think that Satanism intends to become mainstream or it would lose it's intrigue.
Now I don't buy all that cult abuse garbage and I know a lot of the claims have been disproven. But there are still some oddballs out there who will call themselves Satanists, not following La Vey, and really and truly mean they worship this actual powerful spiritual being and think they should go around being cruel, rebellious, destrustive, law breaking socio paths and gain power from this mythical being. They may get into all the Ouji boards, black magic, and think they can cast spells and such. Of course these are mostly teenagers and such, but I think that the word Satanism will always be associated wtih this no matter how much people try to educate others on La Vey's meanings. We have such an oddball here on California's deathrow named Richard Ramirez, and I doubt he even has a clue who La Vey is, but that's his interpretation of Satanism, and it is what most people will always believe.
I myself think the thought of Satanism is intriguing because of the associations with darkness because I do like horror movies and am intrigued by the occult even though I don't believe in any of that stuff. And so it is strange to find out that Satanism is really a sensible phylosophy. I actually thought of becoming a La Vey's "satanist" myself for a short while, but decided that I would be a hypocrate if I did it because I would feel foolish. That's not to say that satanists are foolish nor hypocritical, I am just talking about myself here. I think I would enjoy the shock value a little bit, but I would be too awkwardly aware of why I would choose to call myself a Satanist. And in doing so I would feel a bit imature and adolescentish.
I also admit that I would like to believe in a spiritual reality and a soul and God and all that, but I am too aware of why I want to believe in such things and it's mostly for comfort and to give meaning to existance where I really just can't seem to find any. But something inside of me tells me that it's really just fairy tales. So I tend toward the philosophies where you have to find meaning within yourself and to make life what you want of it. Thank you for making your sights though they have provided me with many hours of entertainment and insight.

Many Satanists believe in much more than just science, LaVey himself believed in real magic, having a real affect on people, via ritual and drama, beyond that which science can explain (hence why it is called magic).

Some of the claims that the First Church of Satan (the link you posted is on the FCoS website) make about LaVey are truly ridiculous and I'm not going to spend time on them. You are right, Satanism will never become mainstream.

Satanism *is* more than philosophy (but note that even some LaVey Satanists consider it only a philosophy, and reject me calling it a religion), I think.

http://www.dpjs.co.uk/needfordogma.html
http://www.dpjs.co.uk/humanism.html (Satanism is more than Humanism)

Lavey,majick and Science.

(Anonymous)

2005-02-10 11:04 pm (UTC)

Ah... but that majick is merely as of yet either undiscovered,not fully understood,as of yet unlabbelled and not accepted by{yet; but some day likely will be}future "science".
It is true that science now does'nt understand it all, but much of it is evidenceable and much of the "majicks" of the past have become science fact.
I have a feeling that Lavey himself knew of this fact.
call it majick or natural law, it's all the same, it is all a part of this natural universe.

peace

Ok I was being a little hypocritical in the last post when I said, "That's not to say that satanists are foolish..." I actually do think Satanism is a little foolish and I do laugh at it a little bit because of what I read about La Vey and because of the symbolisms. I'm probably just being arrogant. It's still a good philosophy though. I just can't embrace it. But all the work Vexen put into these sights is still really appreciated. It really stimulated my mind and gave me a lot to think about. I think Vexen is extremely intellingent even if I disagree with somethings. These sights have been a nice indulgence for me.

Comments

(Anonymous)

2002-12-14 02:28 am (UTC)

Down here where I live, we have a small, small association,in fact we are just 3 by now. I realized Satanism is free-thinking too and you do not have to find 100% of LaVey´s words suitable for your own goals. I think that where there are no beliefs, there is no blasphemy, we do not waste time on throwing out blasphemies or criticisms on christianity. We spent many time hating christians and they were still eating and sleeping, we were angry alone, they didn´t realize. You could say that we might have not taken action, but if we had we could probably be in jail or something. We could have taken revenge wisely, but we do not waste time on planning revenges...besides, the biggest damage we received from christianity is that It, through years, planted on us fears, terrible ones. But my mother (yes, she is a christian) did not do it with any bad intention, she did it because she thought it was the best for me...it didn´t work like that, I couldn´t have ever been a christian, I didn´t like the summision and the turn-the-other-cheek attitude, but it has worked out well for her, it´s got her midly happy(maybe totally, I could not say), so if it did my mother´s existence more comfortable, then it´s good for her, it is good to some extent. I could not waste any time on resentments, it´s just that I like living like a satanist and I cannot believe in any gods.I find it to be a more practical way o life. And yes, there was a time when it was because it was a threat against ALL that was ever to be good, when it was more obviously REACTIONARY. If you believe in whatever, it´s ok for me, I give this satanist freedom to myself, not to others but myself, the freedom to live satisfied in the most possible aspects, not dissatisfied by any others beliefs, not angry or hateful because of those long-gone crusades or any shit like that, if I find anger in my way, I´ll let it flow, I´ll let it fall on any who damages me, if there will not be any undesired consequence. What I want is the ego unvulnerability, as Lao Tse thaught us. Tha´s more independent.
Oh, We do not tolerate drug or alcohol use(abuse?)...We KNOW alcohol is drug. We believe that once you USE you´ll very probably abuse, and we are not here for anyone to find out how much they started to abuse, we want convinced, strong, vice-less people,And yeah, you could rightfully saY `hey, where was freedom left?", and, yes, you`re free to use anything you want, do not do it with us, we do not want cowards hiding behind an "altered-state-of-anything". We could wait until you give up that shot
Fury, untamed intelligent fury against those who deserve it! But c´mon.
Demeth

I would agree with empiress I'm afraid

(Anonymous)

2003-01-10 02:21 pm (UTC)

I respect satanists as I know your nota wicked lot:
however I have to say that by associating yourselves with Satan you give yourselves a bad image. It may be very difficult for you to be accepted in the community of religions and philosophies and in general unless you explain yourselves and your belief system. And let's not forget that most people (especially fervent christians)will prejudge you.
As organized atheists you are not alone, humanists believe in the same things, if I'm not mistaken and they don't get such hassle or are not indentified with evil.After all people will judge you on your figurehead as the mythological Satan is evil associating yourself with him will provide you with prejudice.It will also attract the wrong type of people.
Even chritians who claim to understand you, still give out the wrong image to people, for example a christian auther once wrote
"Satanists do not actually claim to believe in the devil, but believe that he is a force which incourages evil,selfishness and greed" or something to that tune.
You are playing yourselves into the hands of the Christians, if Christians are biased, about their own beliefs they will certainly be about others.
I wish for the non-violent expulsion of intolerant religions, namely monotheist but the Bahai'i fauth are an example of a tolerant monotheist religion.
Your site is very impressive,helpful,superbly researched and logical in it's arguments well done!
I'll finish by saying that as I'm sure you'll agree divinity is not morality, or in English morals are more important than God whether God exists or not, even science is irrelavent next to practising good morals.


what in the world ever bacame of sweet jane? she lost her sparkle you know she isnt the same, livin on reds and vitamin c. and cocaine, all a friend could say is, isnt a shame?

BBC Television

(Anonymous)

2003-10-27 03:43 am (UTC)

Hi

I am doing a BBC Television programme on this subject and would be very interested in talking to you or anyone else who could talk knoweledgably on this subject. My direct dial number is 020 78937875.
Thank-you very much for your time
I look forward to hearing from you
Many Thanks
Ben Fergie, Assistant Producer

Perfect Criticism for me

(Anonymous)

2003-12-28 08:20 pm (UTC)

Being a young interested satanist, when I've read this essay, the first 7 points -what is good about being a satanist- really showed me what I was, as I've read, I've seen that I've become more and more like those 7 points. Even though this showed me selfish in most of my friends' eyes, I knew that most of this was because they envied some of my success' in life. For example I've been accepted into the best computer science university in US, and I'm two years younger than all of my classmates, and no one can deny that (even they can't) these are values that one can be proud of. I'm not saying, I'm the perfect man, they are just failures in life, there are lots of other aspects I envy in them. But they just close their eyes to their own failures, and pretend they are never there, and they never learn that their mistakes will follow them for the rest of their lives.

In the second part, why I'm not a satanist, it is one of the best criticism that was ever made that I've seen. It does not just say (like most of my friends do without knowing anything) "you are satanist, you pray for devil, you are evil, you must rot in hell!" It even knows that we are not the believers of Satan, the image created that people see who is responsible for their own sins.

Just wanted to tell these thoughts, and my final words are, if that is going to make me honest, successive -able to see my own mistakes and not ignore them, instead fight with them-, believe in something that can be seen -me-, I'm proud to be a Satanist!

Re: Perfect Criticism for me

(Anonymous)

2004-03-22 04:44 am (UTC)

Firstly, well done for getting into the best computer science college in the US, especially since you are two years younger than your classmates.

your argument doesn't make any sense to me. Im not sure if it is your poor use of grammer or confused ideals that have left your piece disjointed, but could you clafify a couple of points for me?

You claim to not be a believer of Satan and yet call yourself a satanist. That suggests you dont believe in the person you idolise.

Secondly, the only image available of satan is the one produced by the christian church and the conformity that you seem to detest so much.

Being 'honest' and 'seing ones own mistakes and learning from them' is fundamental to most religions.

It is unfair to call your friends failures as this is condeming them in the way you feel they condemed you as a satanist.

By concluding that your friends 'know nothing' is clearly wrong since they clearly know about heaven and hell and the consequences of praying to the devil. The devil, at least the devil that organised religion takes its satan from are one and the same. Since you support satan you must also support the devil.

Cheers.

Even more...

(Anonymous)

2003-12-28 08:24 pm (UTC)

Same owner of the last comment:

If it wasn't called Satanism, I would've never learned there was such a thing in the world, and I would be one of the herd that kept saying satanism was devil's religion which is evil. SO I'm grateful that its name is satanism.

Let me just say...

(Anonymous)

2003-12-30 04:09 pm (UTC)

To say that Satanism is reactionary is not too far off. Anton LaVey chose to use Satan as the symbol of his religion for a reason. It is the very thing all white light religions fear. Satan represents indulgence not compulsiveness. Satan is humanity's carnal desires. Why fear the word Satan. That is all it is, a word. Besides it is fun to use Satan as a symbol of power and nature.

Why should it be heavy? All one has to do to be a Satanist is to love yourself. Accept your carnal desires, understand nature and that might is right. Don't live your life to what pop culture wants you to live it. If you enjoy something than do it but if you are doing it to please others or to be accept that is counterproductive to living your life to the fullest. Not much there to dig into. All a Satanist must do is be honest with himself and look deeper into others agendas.

I am not an official of the CoS or the Marine Corps but I a Marine and a member of CoS. What Anton LaVey was trying to teach was you need no one other than yourself. What the Marine Corps teaches is that instant self-gratification can get a man killed. One is based on the enjoyment of life while the other is base on the survival of life in combat. Two completely different forms of thought.

I don't need my ego to be feed by anyone but myself. I can tell when a person is honestly giving a compliment out of respect or is trying to manipulate me. That is what Satanism teaches. You are your own and only god. Trust only yourself and those who have earned your trust.

What is wrong with being happy? It is not what everyone is trying to achieve in their short lives. If something fails to give me pleasure I will stop it and seek out a new form of pleasure.

I did not choose to become a Satanist because the religion flatters me. If you speak with Satanists they will be honest even if it is cruel or nice. A Satanist will only lie when it is in their best interest. If I am F-ed up a Satanist will be honest and tell me.

If someone is looking for a rub-each-other's-ego group than Satanism is not for them. It is a brutal and honest religion.

You have missed the boat. A Satanist is his own God and so understands the need for companionship. You think Satanists are hermits that hid from the light of day? If I need to manipulate another to get what I need I will. If I need a person to brighten up my day because I need a little ego stroke, I will. If I need someone to help me recover from a wound I will.

You speak as though a Satanists live on their privately owned islands. This is not so. We need others and we use others. If I enjoy someone's company I will seek it. If I'm annoyed by an individual I will not subject myself to their company unless it benefits me to do so. You are being very discriminating on what you have read or heard on Satanism.

"In fact, you can only attain power if people give it to you."

This is a yes and no statement. How did you get the power that was given to you? Because you leeched off someone else, No. Because you sweat and toiled and gained the respect of your superiors, yes. There is a difference between earning power and being a parasite on others. I do not leech off others for my living and for that my superiors respect me and have returned my hard efforts with rewards. Responsibility to the responsible.

Who cares. So Satan does not cause fear into the hearts of the herd. I don't care nor do most Satanists. I don't need people to fear me just to let me live my life to my standards.

What do you want us to call it now? Terrorism? That causes shook, does it not?

We are not here to shook or to be paraded around for the masses entertainment.

You speak of Dr. LaVey as if he died fifty years ago. I am sure Dr. LaVey would be quite happy at how true Satanists are living their lives. There are Pseudo-Satanists out there and what you're stating is for the Pseudo-Satanists.

By the way, Anton LaVey hated change. He valued the past and only looked forward to change if it would improve his life. Why should us Satanists change to what all these stupid idiots out there want.

Thanks for your opinions and thanks for letting me post my opinions.

Who is/ was satan?

(Anonymous)

2004-03-22 04:27 am (UTC)

I am a Roman Cathoic and was shocked by your referral to satan. I know that the satan from the bible fought a war againsts God, lost, and was banished from heaven. Is this whom you associate yourselves with?

I enjoyed reading your paper and think that free thought, knowledge and intelligence are things that people should cherish but am confused why these things be conected with satan. I would be very interested in your response.

Re: Who is/ was satan?

vexen

2004-04-08 05:32 am (UTC)

No, I am not a Christian and do not believe in the same theology or demonlogy as Catholics, Christians, etc (otherwise I'd clearly call myself a Christian Satanist or something). The Satan, my patron saint, is something else.

Who is Satan?
http://www.dpjs.co.uk/serpent.html

disagreement with comment on independance

(Anonymous)

2004-03-29 02:04 am (UTC)

I Do not believe satanism to teach that we do not need others. The satanic bible and other such satanic texts teach us that through greater knowledge of ourselves and our environment, we can become more powerful, stronger and of higher thought than ordinary people. And it is with this satanic vision which i agree strongly as a satanist myself.

Based solely on reactions? I'll admit the action/reaction part of Satanism is pretty big, like the name and the symbols. But isn't it more about how Satanists act and react than what pictures they put on their websites?

Satanism is easy to explain

(Anonymous)

2004-07-22 09:28 pm (UTC)

You kind of say satanism is "Call me easy say I'm strong love me my way it ain't wrong" which is a CD title from German band Rainbirds.

But it's far more easy. Everything You say 'bout it completely fits with gays who aren't able to cope with gay friends. So they're alone for example as You say and they watch the mostly hetero world intelligently and cynically.
They just "don't mind" to kill women for example.
There's nothing unsatanic about murdering (hetero) people but this is to be derived from your own thought.
So they're in fact nazis who are able to do anything.
That's just all about them.
There are soft satanists but they're not forbidden to be not and if they stay soft they're your kind of tumor-covering cells.

Satanist are just people who have made themselves "God." Well, you will all be in for a big surprise when you die and have to meet your creator, the Living God. I know, I know, you don't believe in Him. I'm just warning you, that's all. Plus, us true, born-again, Bible-believing Christians are NOT stupid. There are people with Doctorate Degrees who are true Christians. So, please, do me and yourself a favor, don't call us stupid anymore and we won't call you stupid anymore. Actually, we don't call you stupid, just "mislead." Just listen to yourselves once in a while, you are all just full of yourselves ... yes, that IS Satan having his way with you. And, yes, Satan is real. You will see one day and, unfortunately, it will be too late for you all.

I'm fairly sure that if God wants me to believe what you want me to believe, it'd have the guts and garters to actually come have a word with me itself, and not rely on people to post LJ posts telling me all about it.

And also, I am 100% sure that if there is a good god, it is somewhat more open minded and tolerable that *your* closed minded attitude.

Ever considered the possibility that you're wrong?

nice essay

(Anonymous)

2004-10-25 02:29 am (UTC)

I loved your essay "Why I am not a Satanist". I am a Satanist and I agree with you. I do not belong to the COS for many of the cons in the culture (or thoughts taught in it rather)that you illustrate. I am a free form satanist I guess if you had to call it anything. What does that mean? To me at least it means that I trust my animal instincts and my human mindfulness to empower me. Thanks for the great read.

Re: nice essay

(Anonymous)

2004-11-25 12:23 am (UTC)

Question: You say that you are not involved in the COS but are a "free satanist", but do you read and agree with LaVeyan literature?

An Chaotie POV

(Anonymous)

2004-10-31 10:53 pm (UTC)

I read the essay and alot of poinrs I do agree on. But like everything, it must have a negitive side. Satanism as the revrend described is modern, LeVey satanism. It does work on shock value and, like Wicca, it can be a temporary or permanent faith. I am from a devoted Roman Catholic family, I selected to be a Chaotie because they hold no gods but are like atheists that believe in magick and accept people from all walks of life. Be them homosexual, colored or whatever. Christians say satan is evil. I look at evil as thinking for yourself and rejecting the christian god. I disliked the concept of, what I seen as, a deity that you must listen to, bow and grovle to and like it no matter what. I see god is a concept of an creature acting like Hitler; Do what I say, when I say it and like it or I'll make your life miserable untill you do. Look at book of revelation, what deity that says it loves us but going to eventually destroy us? I look at the great holy book as just that, a book. Something to be read, enjoyed, but not something to be takin litterally.

Comments on Why I Am Not A Satanist

(Anonymous)

2004-11-25 12:19 am (UTC)

A true Satanist does not stand for hypocrisy in others or in oneself.

There can be a kind of hypocrisy in Satanism, if one calls him or herself a Satanist and yet does not abide by the rules of Satanism, such as not to steal or not to harm little children. They do not stand for hypocrisy but can still practice it, even intentionally.


I think if Anton LaVey were alive today he’d realize his short sightedness.

LaVey only named his religion "Satanism" because he was a dark and demonic man, fascinated with the occult and with the art of devil worship. LaVey himself used to be a devil worshipper himself, you know. He title his newly created religion of the flesh not to shock (although perhaps that could have also been a reason) but to make it something dark, dangerous, and mysterious, exactly what he loved.

THIS 15 YEAR OLD SATANIST THINKS...

(Anonymous)

2004-12-16 10:33 pm (UTC)

Well well,

the first ever worthy criticism article I've read about Satanism. It certainly sounds classy an' all.
So what were those main points again? 1.'Satanism is Reactionary'?
2.'Satanism is Mainly Rhetoric'? 3.'Satanism is too Dependent on Emotion and Human Ego'? 4. 'Satanism Misunderstands Independence'?

1. So what? Is that supposed to be a big thing? Weakness (such as yourself) will always continue to exist, and so long as they do, there will always be 'intelligent' people out there who continue to realise it, and patch it up, to how they like it...no harm to them.
As for troubled teenagers for f*cks sake, we all know they're not through that 'phase' yet. Although, they are an essential nitpicking target to the average critic (sigh).

2. That's true, Satanism boasts A LOT whereas Christianity and all other crap are totally UN-rhetorical. They just keep their mouths shut about everything, you know, the lovely bliss up in the clouds and the nasty pit of larva if you don't behave...

3. Well sir, as long as it works - WHO CARES?! I'm sure that people do realise this, that's one of the points really. Just because you're never gonna feel brilliant about yourself, you can't blame others for doing so, calm down…

4. Oh dear, have you not done your research properly? Have you not read 'The Satanic Witch' at all?
Of course we know that we cannot be COMPLETELY alone at all times, do you think that we are idiots?
Humans use people constantly, to satisfy their own needs, whatever it may be (come on, admit it. You do something nice to somebody because in the end, YOU FEEL GOOD!)

5. And finally..

When there's no more god, and no more eternal paradise, we're all gonna quit Christianity!!! (Phhrrrt! Get a life!)

Anyways, unlike that, luckily for us, there's ALWAYS gonna be things left about for Satanists to munch on.
So we're gonna be around for quite some time...whether people like it or not...

Oh! And by the way, maybe the word 'Satan' WAS a bit too...
I know! Let’s call it MYSELFANISM instead! That way, we'll attract more of these wannabes to misunderstand more of what's already misunderstood! Great!...

Re: THIS 15 YEAR OLD SATANIST THINKS...

(Anonymous)

2006-03-29 10:08 pm (UTC)

Well done, my little prodigy !!

Jesus loves you

(Anonymous)

2005-08-18 11:56 pm (UTC)

I just happen to stumble across this page reading eveybodys comments all i see that something that needs to be read is that Jesus loves all of you he died for YOU and gave his life to erase everybodies sins. When you except him as you personal lord and savior you will inherit the kingdom of heaven!!! Let me also say that satan has you fooled and Jesus will open his arms to you and show you his love!!! A life following Jesus Christ is far more satisfying and rewarding then living a life of sin!!!!!

~~~~JESUS LOVES YOU~~~~~~

One more downfall

(Anonymous)

2005-09-13 03:35 pm (UTC)

I think you forgot "Going to Hell" as being another short coming to satanism. Lets be honest folks, people aren't satanist for any other reason but that it makes them look cool. They want attention. Its like the Goths, they all act like they are "unique", but how many Goths have you seen that look all that different from another? Usually they wear all black, have bloomers wrapped around their arms, and die their hair neon colors. They make sure you know they are different, because it's all they complain about.

From what I gather, Satanism is foolish. Without laws to go by, our society would crumble. If everyone used their own judgment of what's right and what's wrong, we would slowly spiral out of control as a society. There would be an increase in broken homes (as you can see around you, the lack of morality and Christian values has already taken it's toll on our youth today), and we would move to more sadistic family units. Sexual immorality breeds aids, and other diseases. It seems to me like our society has already taken the Satanist label without really committing to this backwards cause. I would rather believe in nothing at all than to believe in a defeated foe, and follow a liar, as is Satan.

Just my 2 cents

Jaybo

Re: One more downfall

(Anonymous)

2006-01-07 11:06 pm (UTC)

I agree, the Reverend's article is a comprehensive, clear-headed and incisive critique. Let's face it Satanism in this era is simply a refuge for the immature and the infantile, in fact a bolt-hole for the conformist-minded and the unimaginative. In a culture where the dominant ethos is dense materialism, hedonistic self-indulgence, unbridled capitalism and economic Darwinism there's absolutely nothing shocking, genuinely subversive or antinomian about Satanism - it simply affirms the basest impulses of human nature and for the last 3 decades at least that has been the social orthodoxy and look at the utter mediocrity that has resulted from that. Likewise Satanism is a refuge for the mediocre and the little-minded - and the grasp of esoteric thought and practise evinced by the Satanist is likewise usually very limited and limiting. Not for nothing did the ancient Persians call Ahriman the 'Druj' the principle of the Lie, of that which deceives and misguides and ends up in delusion and sterility.

Re: One more downfall

vexen

2006-01-08 10:54 am (UTC)

Satanism is a refuge for the strong and intelligent; the middle-minded don't often find themselves here.

Re: One more downfall

vexen

2006-01-08 10:53 am (UTC)

1. Going to hell isn't a shortfall of being a Satanist: Plenty of Christians are apparently going to hell too. And, as you say, "Let's be honest folks", there isn't really any hell or heaven anyway. It's make-believe.

2. Most Satanists are Satanists because it's what their beliefs are.

3. You might find it hard to believe but goths fashion tastes aren't quite so easily explained. What you say is just the same as racists who say "all Chinese look the same", because you're not comfortable with them and don't bother getting to know any of them. There are many different types of goth just like there's many different types of trendies.

4. Satanism does not advocate the abandoning of society.

5. Every uses their own morals to judge what is right and wrong. Isn't that fact a basic tenet of Christianity? Didn't Jesus aggressively criticize the Pharisees for following the law, without really understanding it, for being legalistic rather than personal? Get to grips with your basic theology, Jaybo.

6. Atheists and secular marriages last longer on average than Christian marriages. Especially Christian marriages between Christians of different denominations: That type of marriage represents the quickest breakups you can have. Whatever it is that Christians preach about they don't seem to go at in practice.

I mostly agree with Rev. D about these, although I don't think the "it's just so much more interesting" really holds much water these days. As far as a sense of purpose, there's no description of just what this "meaning" is or what purpose to rally behind! Or does she mean that Satanists decide that for themselves? It still sounds a little sketchy.

In terms of its being Reactionary and heavy on Rhetoric, that does seem obvious, and perhaps tied in with its origins and dependent upon 'the times' it really evolved. As far as being ego-related, that seems to be a component of most religions, whether it's stated or not! Most people will not fall into a religion if it doesn't in some way make them feel good or better somehow, and whether it takes the form of increasing self-confidence or attempting to abolish the *need* for it (an ego), it's still pretty much all the same. Even people who feel guilty or remorseful and are seeking a sort of cleansing punishment and atonement will probably eventually feel "better."

I really agree with #3 in the second list. Interdependence is very important for overall human health, physically and emotionally.

And an afterthought: the whole idea of "power." Just what type of power are Satanists after (or enjoying)? The power of self-confidence? The power of energetic productivity? Some sort of *magickal* power (akin to the very same thing most Wiccans profess a yearning for)?

Overall, the honesty, independent thought, and non-dogmatic ethics sound like the real strengths in Satanism. Being in touch with reality and shunning hypocrisy; thinking intelligently and creatively. It just seems that perhaps a little more strength in the area of what Satanism IS (and could be) rather than mostly what it is NOT (and fights against) would be a ... good thing.

All just my two cents. :)

Rev. Rebecca

(Anonymous)

2009-06-06 10:59 pm (UTC)

I wrote a response to this Essay. Please read it in its entirety at my blog. http://tinyurl.com/NotASatanist

venus satanas

I like the template of your site! It looks really great.

You are viewing vexen