2005

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Vexen Crabtree's Live Journal

Sociology, Theology, Anti-Religion and Exploration: Forcing Humanity Forwards


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Jesus did not exist

"Jesus Did Not Exist" by Vexen Crabtree

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The box...

(Anonymous)

2002-10-22 09:22 am (UTC)

Didn't exist? Then check out the latest archeological find:

http://www.cnn.com/2002/TECH/science/10/21/jesus.box/index.html

"James, Joseph and Jesus were common names in ancient Jerusalem, a city
of about 40,000 residents. Lemaire estimates there could have been as many as 20 Jameses in the city with brothers named Jesus and fathers named Joseph"

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Jesus did not exist

(Anonymous)

2003-11-22 04:28 am (UTC)

If Jesus didn't exist how come there are Jewish, Roman and Greek documents relating to him, that even the biggest atheistic scolars have been unable to disprove? Also Jesus was seen by over 500 people AFTER he rose from the dead, amongst these two Roman historians and a Jewish historian who all say the same things yet could have never met! Also the New Testament itself is widelt viewed to be a very accurate historical document.The question is not whether Jesus existed. It is who he really was!

Re: Jesus did not exist

vexen

2003-11-22 06:15 am (UTC)

There are no Roman documents that mention Jesus. The only Jewish ones were written by gnostic Christians (such as Paul) who didn't believe in a literal Christ, but a transcendental concept of Christ.

If by "Jewish scholar" you mean Josephus, the only time Josephus mentions Jesus is in a comment called the "Flavius Testimonium", which was faked in about the 4th century by Christians.

In short: There are no historical documents that mention a historical Jesus. The only documents we have are some gnostic Christian/Jewish Christian stuff, later on.

The NT is very much NOT regarded as a "very accurate" historical document.

Firstly, it is not a "document" but a series of books written across a few hundred years.

Seconly, the earliest texts treat Jesus as a symbol and part of gnostic story telling - not a literal person

Thirdly, early Church fathers did NOT know (for example) on what day Jesus was born, what die he died, where he was buried, etc. They didn't know this because there was no Jesus.

Try reading some of the links on that page, there are some very detailed documents and studies of some of the texts I've mentioned, it is a very comprehensively studied area of history.

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jesus or his words which is important

(Anonymous)

2004-02-07 12:39 am (UTC)

so what if jesus did not exist , icare more for parables and the sentences of wisdom written in the gospel of matthew mark luke john,
mind you i read upanishads bhagavadgita, khoran, tripitikas,the senteces are on par with other religious scriptures, i would say even more powerful and mind boggling if you have to understand

iam not a christian.

Re: jesus or his words which is important

vexen

2004-07-18 07:52 am (UTC)

You sound sensible

God is alive

(Anonymous)

2004-07-15 04:27 pm (UTC)

It's tough to find out where the truth is. I mean a liar could tell me his opponant is lying and I would be lost without evidence. People reject God because of lies. But here are some truths.
1) I was once addicted to porn. No longer. How? Prayer. I tried for 14 years, until I started praying.
2) I didn't have money to live on my own, though I was on my own. For 30 days, God provided food for me through people and circumstances. God loves me.
3) I had a spider bite on my leg when I was working in Jamaica for 2 weeks. I started to pray that it would heal, and it did. I was skeptical and so I stopped praying... and I had to go to the hospital because it got so bad. I have the scar as a reminder of the power of prayer, and the dangers of believing a lie.

Are these events imaginary? Am I a liar? If there were any other way to be free from porn, then I have all ready tried it, even calling out to other gods and Muhammad. If I am a liar, then so are those who were with and researched Jesus Christ as found in the Bible. If I am not a liar, then neither are they, because their words worked in my life.
4) Last week my mom overdosed on sleeping pills. I prayed for her to be healed in the name of Jesus. She was out of the hospital the next day. God heals us of our hurts.

God loves us, and would rather die then destroy us. He has all ready done that. Where else will you find that love other than through Jesus Christ?
Steven

So, you perform magic but think that God done it, not you? Why do you assume that? If you believe in magic (and clearly you do - whether you believe that God does it or you do), why do assume that it requires the intervention of a good god? Do you believe magic works even when god isn't secretly doing it for you?

Also, if God wanted to use magic to aid your friend, why did it need *your* help to do it? If God wanted your friend healed, it would heal your friend. If God didn't want your friend to be healed, no amount of praying, persuasion or argument could make God change it's mind! (An omniscient being that knows everything can't exactly lose an argument!)

So, what gives?

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How dare you voice your thoughts on such a dangerous subject like it doesnt affect thousands of peoples lifes. I doubt the facts that were found about Jesus could be faked. If you want to live a negitive life without Our Lord do it on your own dude. It's people like you I pray most. God bless you.

Jesus H Christ

(Anonymous)

2004-12-30 03:53 am (UTC)

Please. PLEASE. If you're going to italicize the word, "definitely," spell it right! Oh God! Spell it right! Spell it right please, Jesus! OHH!!! GOD!!! RAPTURE ME!!!

Re: Jesus H Christ

vexen

2004-12-30 07:18 am (UTC)

Tee hee... ok... I've noted the error. I can't fix it for a while because I'm not with my own computer & source files etc, but will fix it on next upload.

Thanks for letting me know.

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the truth!

(Anonymous)

2005-03-07 12:54 pm (UTC)

The truth is that there is historical proof that Jesus lived.
Cornelius Tacitus-- Talked about Christs death.
Lucian Samosata- Greek Satirist made references to the 'man' christians worship.
Suetonius-- Jews expelled from Rome due to activities on behalf of a man called Cherstus (mispelling of Christ).
Pliny the younger-- Executed christians and wrote about how they sang songs to Christ.
Thallius and Phlegon (historians) Both confirmed the land went dark when Christ crucified.
Josephus- Describes Jesus as a wise man, doer of wonderful works and calls him Christ.

The gospels- Mark written in AD50-65. Matthew written in AD70-80 and
Luke early ad60's. John was written in ad80-100.

The first three gospels were all written within living memory of christ being crucified. And these early accounts of the gospels confirm that what was written in John to be true.

Just these facts alone throw incredible doubt as to the sincerity and onus of yourself in relation to what you are writing.



Mara bar Serapion- Wrote a letter to his son which describes how the Jews executed their King.

Alexander the great lived well before Jesus Christ. But we have no problem believing what was written about him by those who saw him or heard of him.The old testament foretold the coming of christ. Did Jesus not foretell the fall of Jerusalem in ad70? What is it about Christ that men are still talking about him over 2000 years later?
You see we know about Alexander the Great and men recorded what he did. It is just that n one is interested as it has no bearing on this time.
But as for Christ. He has been talked of since he came with ceasing.
Look at Paul his travels are recorded. What changed such a hardened enemy of Christ into his most ardent follower.?

The truth is God told us what would happen. Like Adam and Eve we have to decide if we are going to listen and take heed of his warnings.
The last days men will become godless. This site is proof again of prophesy being fulfilled. Even if we burnt the history books and got rid of all material evidence. The truth would still exist. That there is only one God and his son Jesus Christ was the Messiah. And as he changed the lives of many thousands over 2,000 years ago. He is still doing it today. For Gods Kingdom cannot been seen by the eye for it is within a person. To understand and accept truth. We first have to be open minded to receive it. Your blatant disregard for what the historians actually wrote prove you are looking to prove that there is not a God, whether or not there is. It is not proof but assurance for something you decided on before you searched. Try reading the bible and reading what others wrote about Christ. What problem do you really have with such a loving forgiving God and a saviour who touched lepers before he healed them? Such love is rare. Truth has to be sought with an open mind and heart. With the purpose of finding the answer to the question not trying to create the answer.

Lynne.

Re: the truth!

(Anonymous)

2006-06-28 11:36 am (UTC)

could anyone provide links or details of where these details can be found?

Hey, Vexen! *tangyapple* here. (I'm on a self-imposed hiatus; I may undelete my journal after a month's break.) I've read this book, plus the follow-up "Jesus and the Lost Goddess." To me, they both make a very strong case for the idea that Jesus was mythical. The first book explains the history and the second, the meaning behind some of the original Christians' beliefs concerning the myth. It does seem very suspicious to me that the 'history' would so closely resemble multiple, earlier myths!

However, the Lost Goddess began to lose steam with me toward the end of the book, with the definition of this 'female' half merely representing the error: the psyche's fall into identification with the body. Their few disclaimers that God (nor any manifestation thereof) is not necessarily of any 'gender' weren't strong enough, and thus left this reader wondering why the Messiah is (always) portrayed as male, and the wanton, fallen human as a female... prostitute. I suppose there's no other way to effectively describe the *problem* of identifying with the body or flesh without invoking a sexual component; and it's probably generally accepted that prostitutes at the time were only and always female. Now maybe I have trouble seeing beyond the gender labels. And granted, the higher Sophia is also female, but still, the whole notion of the epicenter of God (pure consciousness) is still very strongly depicted as having a male essence.

Anyway, I'm still enjoying your essays and keeping tabs on your site. There's so much to learn! :) I hope you're doing well! Take care. ^__^

jesus and the easter bunny wait santa too!!!!!

(Anonymous)

2005-06-11 03:34 am (UTC)

religion is like opium for the masses, i get tired of people trying so hard to convience me there is a god who use to be a man. at age six i was told there was no santa and what immediatelly followed was santa is really my parents. so why wouldn't jesus be in the same category. explain it i won't listen. tell me about the similarities about jesus and that guy horace you know the first jesus from the corahn. tell me how the world is going to end and explain to me why every year we have to say is this the year. religion uses a scare tactics to control the masses. they also want your money. i believe there is only one god. i believe that my god created lucipher on purpose to control the heavens not the earth. i know one day that god himself will foregive the devil. if he really means it. oh did i mention to tell you. i don't believe in a god nor a jesus. l believe that the end of the world is your death. i believe that giving ten percent to the church is b.s. give to yourself or to someone who needs it. like a homeless guy someone in africa or around the world where someone starving gets to eat. stop paying for false profits trips, air condition, water, gas ect...do the right thing even if you disagree withwhat i write choose for yourself don't let anyone do it for you.

Re: jesus and the easter bunny wait santa too!!!!!

(Anonymous)

2005-09-23 01:53 pm (UTC)

Hey man...
EVERYONE has faith. You have faith that this world is real and that your senses are correctly representing reality. If you disagree, then prove to me that you are real... Prove that the world has always existed and that matter is eternal. You have faith in these things (if not then an intellectual infinite being must exist).
You told us to choose for yourself, yet you are telling us which road we are to choose. Aren't you doing exactly what the "church" is doing? TELLING us what to do! I am 5 hours away from a trip to help build houses in Charleston. I don't tithe--I give where I feel led. I work where I feel compelled. You have stereotyped Christians. Stop. I am not telling you what to believe, but asking that you be human and kind about your beliefs. Be rational- not belligerent.
Adios...
Dean

your website

(Anonymous)

2006-01-07 09:13 pm (UTC)

Hello,
I could not miss the opportunity to comment on your website. Firstly, it is extremely accessible, well presented, clear and simple. There is evidence of research, enquiry and subject knowledge. There is not however, evidence of genuine historical enquiry that should characterise any establishment of truth claims in religious history. Many key influences are ignored. For example, it is not surprising that we can find all sorts of semi-parallel materials in history. Two things to consider concerning them is
1) how sure we can be about their dating-there may also exist many counterfeit attempts to produce prior parallel material
2) If there is true religion revealed from God, then there will also be counterfeit religion (as there are many different religions in the world)-thereby other religions will centre around distortions of the truth (and therefore bear similarities).
What I need to say most fervently is that the Jewish context and history has been ignored in your consideration. That there were 12 disciples has to do with the Jewish nation classified into 12 nations for hundreds of years previous to any pagan sun theories. The events of Jesus' life and death are all found in the Old Testament documents that precede Jesus and can be clearly identified. E.G many texts in Isaiah, the third chapter of Genesis (he (satan/snake) will bite your heel but you will crush his head)many more.
Consider also the historical nature of the 12 disciples, their own writings, letters sent to archaelogicaly verifiable places bearing all the contemporary marks of their culture, currency and issues, bearing very level headed argument and appeal. Consider also their documented deaths for refusing to deny Christ. If I were them and I were in doubt or lying about this Jesus, the point I would give it all in would be when I was about to be crucified upside down. Christianity leaves itself open to historical falsifiabilty and you are right if it is not true Christians are to be pitied and life is only about eating, drinking, being merry-doing whatever you want, no holes barred. However, consider the possibility too that many believe it to be true, but deny it or hold it lightly because it prevents them living the life they want to live. If they want to be promiscuous, be powerful lording it over others, be wealthy at the expense of others and so on, then they would choose to deny/ignore given evidence because it suits them to do so. But they will deprive themselves of joy and pay the penalty.

Yours hopefully
Chris Woollett

Deluded!!!!

(Anonymous)

2006-01-14 05:33 pm (UTC)

I tell you what, if the bible is fake and Jesus didn't exist it must be one heck of a conspiracy to get that many people involved and for 1000's of people to still believe in it over 2000 years later, well!!! Nice work to them all if it is indeed a fake, BUT I put it to you that it is not. Jesus is in fact the most recorded person in the ancient world and his death is the best attested death of his time. There is no denying that Jesus existed. You are merely clutching at straws to bad mouth the Christian faith! I agree that there is doubt as to whether there is a God and if Jesus did indeed rise from the dead but that is why it is called faith. I am sure you have faith that next time you breathe your lungs will fill with air, even though you can see that air you believe that it is there, you can see the effects it has. Well the same can be said for people with a Christian faith. They can not see God but they can see the effects that he has on peoples lives and on what is going on in the world today. Had it occurred to you that you ought not to be so small minded and find something better to do that bad mouth religion. Maybe you ought to go out and help all those people in the world that the church is not helping! Just give it ago. There are 1000's of Christian men and women who have dedicated their lives to helping people in need and repairing broken lives. Do you not think that is somewhat more constructive than you website? I am not asking you to believe in God and Jesus and all that the Christian faith stand for just have some respect and try to stop being such a hypocrite.

Re: Deluded!!!!

(Anonymous)

2006-01-27 10:46 pm (UTC)

Air can be seen. You give another bad analogy in an attempt to defend a delusion.

Look, if all you have to go on is "a lot of people believe", then why don't you adopt Gnosticism, Mysticism, Buddhism, Hinduism, Islam, or any of the other 10,000 religions that have been created by humans and other hominids prior to humans?

It is really quite easy to prove that there is no Jesus. But, then again, you have to be coming from a perspective that there is no Zeus either in order to accept the reality and evidence.

Jesus' "death" was wildly reported as true (many years later) as was his life. And your point is? So were many other man-gods with lives similar to Jebus reported as true during times prior to Jesus. Santa was also reported to shimmy down my chimney recently. Somehow, I am just not buying it (but then again, I don’t have a chimney).

I will say this. I have tried it both ways. I am far happier and content without fairy-tales than I was with them. Here is the shocker of all shockers: I have raised three children not to believe as well. Ha ha. And, they are so visceral about it that they are going around debating their other young friends about Christianity. It is just a matter of time and you guys are sunk. You tried burning the libraries and people who proclaimed science. Now you can’t get past the dissemination of information. Without you, we will get less guilt, more kindness, less killing and more personal happiness along with a general advancement of the human species.

With Jesus, your life is based on an anachronism that is simply not true. Without him, you are you. Don’t you value you enough to actually be you?

--Former Kool-Aid Drinker

Sorry, terrible title, couldn't think what to put. I'm not sure if you'll want to read it cause it's written by a Christian (although you may already done so), but a really cool book is "A Case for Christ". This guy basically goes round and interviews loads of experts about various things like archeaological evidence, psychological evidence, medical evidence etc. etc. He studied law and was a journalist, and its really well written, not at all dry. Definitely worth a read whatever you're viewpoint.

Re: Hey

(Anonymous)

2006-01-27 10:50 pm (UTC)

No offense but that book has been roundly debated and debunked and many years ago.

It is in the pseudo historical category sort of like ID is in the pseudo science category (being kind here).

<3 <3 <3 <3

(Anonymous)

2006-03-06 09:57 pm (UTC)


Love... Just... Love... <3 <3 <3

I really liked a lot
of the info on this
website... Omg...

(Runs off to show her uber conservative Bible-thumping parents.)

Religous Experience

(Anonymous)

2006-04-14 08:45 am (UTC)

I was brought up in the church and had a very strong faith. It seems totally unjust to rationally believe that an innocent baby should be born with original sin - because of the sins of it's parents ( whoose ancesters were Adam and Eve).
I struggled to believe in God and Jesus for many years - aided by what I thought were supernatural revelations or 'highs'.
It's obvious to me that the religous experiences that people go through on an emotional level are in fact, a manifestation of Bipolar Disorder. It is a chemical imbalance in the brain. As such it is possible to believe in the irrational. When people have doubts about faith it is because they are coming down from a 'high'.
As a rule of thumb, i think that if people behaved towards each other in the way that Jesus exorted us to, the world would be a much beter place.
Unfortunately, the church and believers are often mor interested in 'playing God' as Judge instead of forgiving and being unconditional in their largesse towards ech other. Jesus said, 'love thy neighbour' - full stop. It wasn't conditional. The 'Christian Club' will always be there for you as long as you unquestionably go along with everything that it teaches - ask awkward questions - and you're out. It's about time we al grew up and decided to be nice to each other just for the sake of it - becuase it makes sense. We shouldn't need religon to make us do that.
In my experience, Christians and priests have been some of the most hateful people I have met. It's really worrying when people like Blair and Bush think that they have a mandate from God to go to war when they have a 'divine revelation'.
Believe me - with all the talk about charity - the church won't give a toss about you when you fall on hard times. Whilst you've got something to offer in the way of talent, social standing or money - it will embrace you like a rash!
The Beatles were right, 'All you need is love' - if we could get that right - everything else would fall into place.
Has is ever occured to you that in all the countries which are predominated by Christianity there is more fammine and poverty than anywhere else? The only thing they have left - is hope, but all the prayer in the world doesn't seem to make any difference. If God knew that us humans were going to make such a mess of the world with 'reknowledge' why did He design the world like it is? The church will tell you that it is because of free will. If you knew that your kid was going to go out and shoot someone even though you knew it was wrong - would you still give hime freewill? I hope not. You'd be a lousy parent if you did.

Re: Religous Experience

(Anonymous)

2007-07-26 08:45 pm (UTC)

Hi , Listen It sounds like you have had a bad experience in your early years with your church (I'm guessing so please forgive me if I'm wrong). I also grew up in a very strict catholic family and went to a catholic school, It amazes me to see how many christian churches and christians around the world feel the need to be forcefull in spreading christianity. Where is the free will in that. The irony is that christians are called to follow the life of Jesus. What did Jesus do when people during his time didn't believe who he was? well he didn't force them to believe, in a lot of cases he just left. The Sermon on the mount is a good example of this, after the people started walking away in discust shaking their heads at what he was saying, he turned to his deciples and said to them are you now going to leave too and when he sent his diciples out to spread his message he told them if you enter a house and you are not welcome, turn away and leave that house, he never condoned using any kind of force (whether mental(through slander) of physical)to spread christianity because by doing that you are taking away someones free will to believe what they choose, Yet we do it all the time. You also mentioned that 'the church and believers are often mor interested in 'playing God', unfortunatly you are so right about this as well and it is sad that this is the case. But the thing is that we are at risk of rejecting God ironically by ourselves Judging who God is by the actions of his followers.
Two of my family members are christians and one is a pschyotherapist and is fully aware of the affects of brain chemical imbalance but if that was true look at how many true believers are in the world, that is alot of people with chemical imbalances.
Just to briefly comment on your last point about why God knowingly created the world knowing we were going to make such a mess. Well there is alot I don't understand myself about God but I do know he is hurting far more than we are about how messed up the world is but I think that God made us as free creatures because they are the only type of creatures who can love because love is something you do out of choice. you can't make someone believe otherwise they wouldn't be free.I suppose then we'd be like clones programmed to live a certain way but for the sake of the few who will be saved God has allowed things to unfold as they are.
I think the important thing to remember is that He calls us to believe out of choice not forcefully out of fear. The only time fear comes into anything througout history or in scripture is during judgment of some kind.
You also mentioned,' the church won't give a toss about you when you fall on hard times', my advice would be to walk away from anyone (or church) who claims to represent God or tries to spread Gods word through force or fear,or makes anyone(regardless of their race, sex or religion) feel inferior or less important just because they don't believe in Jesus. That creats divides and barriers which divides people and Jesus came to unite people.
Thats what jesus warned about when his diciples asked him about false churches or prophets, Good Churches bear good fruits(people), and should be there for you regardless of where you are in life. Unfortunatly I know this is not always the case.
And I know that a lot of churches will discriminate you because of maybe something you have done or a situation you are in, God does not discriminate and there is absolutly nothing you can do to make him love you any less.
Sorry to drag on a bit and I am sorry to hear of your experience. Its definitly not easy I can tell you, but I really do hope you find your way.
And you have probably guessed by now that I am a christian too <
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Hi , Listen It sounds like you have had a bad experience in your early years with your church (I'm guessing so please forgive me if I'm wrong). I also grew up in a very strict catholic family and went to a catholic school, It amazes me to see how many christian churches and christians around the world feel the need to be forcefull in spreading christianity. Where is the free will in that. The irony is that christians are called to follow the life of Jesus. What did Jesus do when people during his time didn't believe who he was? well he didn't force them to believe, in a lot of cases he just left. The Sermon on the mount is a good example of this, after the people started walking away in discust shaking their heads at what he was saying, he turned to his deciples and said to them are you now going to leave too and when he sent his diciples out to spread his message he told them if you enter a house and you are not welcome, turn away and leave that house, he never condoned using any kind of force (whether mental(through slander) of physical)to spread christianity because by doing that you are taking away someones free will to believe what they choose, Yet we do it all the time. You also mentioned that 'the church and believers are often mor interested in 'playing God', unfortunatly you are so right about this as well and it is sad that this is the case. But the thing is that we are at risk of rejecting God ironically by ourselves Judging who God is by the actions of his followers.
Two of my family members are christians and one is a pschyotherapist and is fully aware of the affects of brain chemical imbalance but if that was true look at how many true believers are in the world, that is alot of people with chemical imbalances.
Just to briefly comment on your last point about why God knowingly created the world knowing we were going to make such a mess. Well there is alot I don't understand myself about God but I do know he is hurting far more than we are about how messed up the world is but I think that God made us as free creatures because they are the only type of creatures who can love because love is something you do out of choice. you can't make someone believe otherwise they wouldn't be free.I suppose then we'd be like clones programmed to live a certain way but for the sake of the few who will be saved God has allowed things to unfold as they are.
I think the important thing to remember is that He calls us to believe out of choice not forcefully out of fear. The only time fear comes into anything througout history or in scripture is during judgment of some kind.
You also mentioned,' the church won't give a toss about you when you fall on hard times', my advice would be to walk away from anyone (or church) who claims to represent God or tries to spread Gods word through force or fear,or makes anyone(regardless of their race, sex or religion) feel inferior or less important just because they don't believe in Jesus. That creats divides and barriers which divides people and Jesus came to unite people.
Thats what jesus warned about when his diciples asked him about false churches or prophets, Good Churches bear good fruits(people), and should be there for you regardless of where you are in life. Unfortunatly I know this is not always the case.
And I know that a lot of churches will discriminate you because of maybe something you have done or a situation you are in, God does not discriminate and there is absolutly nothing you can do to make him love you any less.
Sorry to drag on a bit and I am sorry to hear of your experience. Its definitly not easy I can tell you, but I really do hope you find your way.
And you have probably guessed by now that I am a christian too <<but don't hold that against me... :)>>
Take care, and all the best
Thanks

It is sad when poeple have to attack one of the few things that help mankind stay together in any form. Try and prove God was real the same as moses was. If you dont believe in God you dont believe in anything. Meaning your life in hell is all that matters. Have fun live in it and die in it. Sorry all the poor souls out there that had a experience with God must be sick but I can tell you they are happy and ready to face death in a good way. Tommy Hawksblood

lying, insane, or telling the truth?

(Anonymous)

2006-06-29 07:04 pm (UTC)

so were the 500 people who saw Jesus alive again after His death lying or insane? the only other explanation is that they were telling the truth.

Re: lying, insane, or telling the truth?

vexen

2006-07-02 05:05 am (UTC)

Er, dude! There is only *one* person who believes that "500" people saw Jesus rise from the dead, and his account differs completely from the other two gospels; personally I rather doubt that he was telling the truth and that simply no-one mentioned it! He might have *thought* that 500 people saw Jesus rise from the dead - but no-one else at the time appears to have noticed, including the other gospel writers nor St Paul!

Dear Lord, please protect me from your followers.

(Anonymous)

2006-09-07 09:08 am (UTC)

All the stories, regardless of whether they're true or false, lead to this main idea. Look at the big picture and don't just argue about stories.
The very basis of Christianity, and many other religions for that matter, is in fear and control.
Basically what the majority of religions tell you is "You do things our way, and you get to go to Heaven when you die!" (whatever their specific definition of heaven is)
People are afraid (fear) of death and find comfort in this statement...so they do what they are told (control).
This sounds negative, but it's not always. Take the 10 Commandments as an example. Even people who don't believe in God will agree that these are generally moral and sound rules to live by.
Then again, people have been using religion as an excuse to murder, rape, torture, and abuse people since the beginning of recorded history.

The point of all this rambling is to say...chalking everything up to God is the path of least resistance. Be strong enough to believe in yourself, don't let yourself be controlled by people who are being controlled themselves. And most importantly, YOU DO NOT NEED A REASON TO HELP SOMEONE. YOU SHOULD NOT HAVE TO BE PROMISED AN ETERNAL REWARD WHEN YOU DIE FOR SHOWING COMPASSION TOWARDS YOUR FELLOW HUMAN BEINGS.
I could go on for days but I will leave it at this.
Thanks for reading,
-{SD}CM-Slib

jesus

(Anonymous)

2007-03-17 01:28 pm (UTC)

jesus does exist you fool may you be fogiven for you stupidity

Re: jesus

(Anonymous)

2012-06-11 12:43 am (UTC)

Prove it!

Jesus and history...

(Anonymous)

2007-04-13 01:30 am (UTC)

Actually, Jesus very well did exist. Lets start with the Qumran library where at least 12 biblical manuscripts are being featured, including the famous "dead sea scrolls" discovered in 1947. Yes, research has proven these to be factual, not fake, or replicas.
Also, there are many historians who have written accounts of Jesus....look at some of his 12 disciples. we have 4 books from them, all from the same time period, all with their distinct styles of writing, none of them contradicting each other. Also, there were prophecies of the birth of a man named Jesus from bethlehem hundreds of years before, and those came true. (isaiah)
Also, look at archaology. There is much proof of a worldwide flood, such as layers of different kinds of rock and soils are apparent as you dig. Also, there are different accounts of a worldwide flood by the babylonians, the aegeans, the egyptians, and several others.
To deny the life of a very prominent man proves someone obviously did not do their research. Also, i see no sources for this essay.

Re: Jesus and history...

(Anonymous)

2007-04-13 01:38 am (UTC)

i am the same writer as above...and i have more to add...have you ever heard of the council of nicea? 325 Ad....hundreds of prominent reigious men in europe got together to finally purge out impurities within the divine texts, and settled on the bible. yes, catholics, and protestants alike, got togehter and agreed on the bible, although some catholics still use the rejected books(the apocrypha) even though they are inconsistent with the other books.
but think about this....325 years after the records of Jesus, this group got together. 325 years is a lot closer than 2007, so 1st off i think they would not have even bothered getting together if there was no historical record of Jesus. So they most definately had proof of jesus, and they agreed on a canon for the texts; the bible.
there is soooo much more evidence, but i will stop with this....in jesus' time, herod kept records of the people (a census), and jesus was on it.
Look this up for yourself from reiable sources, not blog sites from random people with no credibility.

RE: Jesus does not exist

(Anonymous)

2007-07-26 07:09 pm (UTC)

Friend , there are several Roman and Greek and surprisingly Jewish historical documents relating to Jesus. Even Jewish and Roman historical manuscripts document the crucifixion, Remember the Jewish people are the last people on the planet who would believe in God descending onto the world in human incarnation let alone offering himself as a sacrifice for our sins.Infact the Jews and the Romans wanted christianity stamped out because it posed a treath to their civilsations and they were concerned about how fast it was growing. Yet Paul (who was a Jewish high priest who actively persued Christians to put them to death) believed after he witnessed the resurrected Jesus on the road to Damascus. Explain how the entire Pagan Greek and Roman empire converted to christianity who were advanced civilisations and highly intelligent for the times. Listen,I grew up in a strict catholic family, had a brief time with the Mormon church and later converted to Buddhism, but it wasn't until several years ago that a close friend introduced me to the true christian faith that I started to fully understand who Jesus was, so believe me I honestly Respect everyone’s opinion regarding their spiritual (or lack of spiritual) beliefs because i've been there, and I admit the actions of many Christians today, infact entire churches would push people away from Christianity but I appeal to you,not to judge christianity based on the lives and actions of the many people who claim to follow him just by name(even though many of them are good people) because we are all flawed, but instead I would ask you to Look the teachings of Jesus yourself and at least consider what he tells us and consider that he is the one man who lived the life and for that matter died the death we should.
Hope this helps
Thanks

Re: Jesus does not exist

(Anonymous)

2008-05-18 08:46 pm (UTC)

And which true Xtian faith would that be? Which of the 2000-3000 splintered sects did you buy into this time? There is not a shred of historical evidence for a god man named Jesus. Jesus is the hero with a thousand faces. A myth. The earliest forms of Xtianity...teh Ebionites and the Gnostics knew this...that Jesus was not a "real" historical person. Then the literalists took over and burned/destroyed prior evidence. This was when the Xtian creed was developed at the Nicean Council of 325 AD. Presided over by Constantine...who had his own brother and mother killed. Literalist Xtianity is BS. The greatest story even sold.

How do u know

(Anonymous)

2007-10-12 03:31 pm (UTC)

How do you know that Jesus did mot exist? Were you there? I dont think so.

Dont make things up just because you think your better than Jesus.... your not!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! >:o

Re: How do u know

(Anonymous)

2007-11-04 08:40 pm (UTC)

If he did exist he would be the great false prophet that G-d warned of in the Old Testament.

Existence of Jesus

(Anonymous)

2007-11-06 06:49 pm (UTC)

Hi I'm the grand nephew of the Abbe Ducot-Bourget

The Abbe found from the enumeration of 7 bc, made by the Romans, the evidence that a son of Mary grand-daughter of Ruth and a son of Joseph descendant of David existed. By the way The Abbe Ducot Bourget orchestrated the peace treaty at the end of WWII. I suggest you think twice about dissing him and what he as achieved.

Jesus was enumerated as
Yeshurun Bar-Yuseph Ber-Geber Ben-David
from when he returned from Egypt

Otherwise this is the equivalent of a birth certificate.
You are right about Nazareth. Ignorami are a dime a dozen and popes are not immune.
A carpenter back then did not have the same implications as it as today.
Today you consider a carpenter, if he is very good, as maybe also a cabinet maker and that is all.
In those days, although, a carpenter was a mason and an architect, an agronomist, a merchant. So he was really rich, therefore he wasn't poor. He usually was a judge or a priest depending if he was or not a first born.
There were many types of priesthood back then. The jews were not yet a nation but just a tribe.
Priests were; at the temple; Levites, Saduceans or Aaronites for the jews. The Aaronites were a sub-group of the Levites.
The other tribes had the priesthood of the Nazrai-Ha-Brith. The first born of the other tribes had to make a vow to dedicate their lives to God.
This priesthood was known as the priesthood according to the order of Melchizedeck.
To enter this priesthood you had to make the vow of Nazirism or become a nazirit. So Jesus the nazorean was really a scholar graduated from the essene college. Essene being a greek word and not an hebrew name, as the hebrew name was the community of Nazrai Ha Brith of Cumran or Jeriko in those days. The greek term meaning the holy ones.
Yeshurun lo and behold is a student at the Cumran community and graduated with honors on the same year as Mary-Magdalena. oops what does that mean. Oh yes the title given to the best A student was Messiah, ooh lala.
I suggest you read up or inform yourself. It's all nice and dandy that people like to discredit Christ.
Everyone is embarking on the laicity bandwagon because the catholic church is being evicted from their role of keeper of the fate because their sins have reached heaven and they wont escape the judgement. Because catholicism is dying does not mean that Christianity is about to.
In the days of Jesus Herod was placed upon the throne of Jerusalem and was the puppet of the romans and the jews. That's when the jews started to war against the Nazrai-Ha Brith to destroy them and obtain exclusivity at the temple and thus gain political power. It just happens that Jesus could not become a levite because of the roman occupation and became a Nazrai Ha Brith so he would not be identified as the king of Israel. Since he was also a jew he was said to also be king of the jews but he was only king of the jews as far as the jews were but one tribe of Israel. The chosen people of God are not the Jews but Israel as a nation.
Herod's destruction of the Nazrai Ha Brith is the cause of the misunderstanding and the existence of Nazareth today.
Through the infallability dogma the pope remained a liar and thus sealed the faith of the catholic church.
Laicity is all grand and pleasurable but it blinds everyone to the fact of the false prophet that is trying to obtain control of the world by forcing everyone to believe in God. Well God does not need the help of anyone if he wants them to love him and follow him.
During the WWII everyone was obfuscated, and still are, that 6 million jews were killed. Why is no one elevating themselves against islam murdering an incredible amount of christians in Africa. 20 million people have died and no one cares because they are black.
The false prophet is the antichrist, according to the words of Jesus-Christ himself.
Mahomet says "Jesus is not the christ", because he wants to be the messiah. That is the definition of the antichrist and that's who is the false prophet.

Re: Existence of Jesus

(Anonymous)

2007-12-06 09:01 pm (UTC)


Man you are so wrong on so many basic facts I dont know where to start. The Jews weren't a nation? What do you call King David and Solomon then? How can a "tribe" be made up itself of 13 "tribes" (you HAVE heard of the 13 tribes of Israel, yes? The sons of Jacob?)

You speak with great authority about matters no one knows for sure. That proves your wrothlessness as a theologian. Get some humility and focus on the core:

jesus taught:

1. love
2. no man is judge

practice that, and pray for peace. Otherwise, your power is of this world, and you are gonna perish along with all those Muslims you hate so much.

may you have peace, shalom


Re: Existence of Jesus (Anonymous) Expand

Existence of Jesus

(Anonymous)

2007-11-06 06:51 pm (UTC)

You can always laugh and scorn the word of God but believe me, when you will have to become a muslim you will laugh a lot less.
Unless of course you see that islam is not a religion. If Nazies started killing as many people in Africa we would have WWIII and not as it is now the "third world" war.
Behold Satan now knows he as little time and woe to the inhabitants of the world because he is on the ground animated by a great rage.

Revelation 19:20
But the beast was captured, and with him the false prophet who had performed the miraculous signs on his behalf. With these signs he had deluded those who had received the mark of the beast and worshiped his image. The two of them were thrown alive into the fiery lake of burning sulfur.
Revelation 19:19-21 (in Context) Revelation 19 (Whole Chapter)


PS the supposed brothers of Jesus were not his brothers but in fact were his brothers in law. As Jesus had more then one wife.

Re: Existence of Jesus

(Anonymous)

2007-11-14 05:27 pm (UTC)

Honestly I have to wonder about people like this, Show me your evidence that Jesus was married, if you are referring to the likes of the Da Vinci code then you are a very easily misled person (Channel 4 Docunmentry on 'Da Vinci code': The editor of the Da Vinci code himself admitted that the book was originally intendead to be a fictionous book deliberatly intending to cause controversy (as these are generally the best sellers)),

Amazing that some people come up with a theory and so many people jump on the band wagon and decide it must be true, as opposed to scripture which has been virtually written in stone for thousands of years and has changed the lives of so many people as well as the works and miracles of a man which were witnessed by thousands of people, his followers, his enemies alike.

you wrote 'You can always laugh and scorn the word of God but believe me, when you will have to become a muslim you will laugh a lot less' ,
Is that what islam is all about ?? forcing people to beieve against there free will, fire agression and control etc..??? not the sort of God I would like to meet and if God is like that then there is no hope for any of us.

All you have to do is look at the harmony and beauty of creation itself to see the reflection of Gods image and what he is like. Jesus then confirmed this loving image and showed us that God wants everyone to be saved regardless of their race, colour or personal background. When people rejected the works of Jesus(God) he didn't strike them down with disease or bolts of lightening, he allowed them the free will to choose their path but at the same time told them of the consequences of doing so.

Friend, you are perfectly entitled to your opinion and you may think I am biased because I am a christian but I have had a fairly long and complex spiritual Journey, and have Muslim family from Saudi and a large number of Buddist's in my family as well, with all these distractions I got confused and asked God to lead me to the truth and this is where he brought me and over the last 10 years I am amazed of what God has shown me through the world.

Anyway you have found a path which you are so sure about, I really hope you are right because there is a lot at stake, to many people see religion/spirituallity as a label, an identity, and leave it at that but there is alot more to it than that and the magnitude of the claims that Jesus made are to great to be taken lightly.

Thanks for reading
All the best.

what HE taught

(Anonymous)

2007-12-06 08:57 pm (UTC)

This is the opposite of the truth:

"All the actual sayings and teachings of Jesus were also not new, and much of the time speeches attributed to Jesus are more like collections of Jewish and Pagan sayings. Even distinctive texts like the Sermon on the Mount are not unique. If we remove all the content that Jesus could not have heard and repeated himself, there is nothing else left. If we remove the supernatural elements of Christianity that are copies of already existing thought and religion, there is nothing left which is unique!"

You'll notice no evidence is provided for the view expressed in this paragraph. What Jewish and Pagan sayings are you talking about? Where is judge not, blessed are the meek, love your neigbor as yourself in the Judaic or Hellenist tradition? Where is the "cast the first stone", the parable of wedding clothes, the "be fishers of men"? I have never seen anything like these. In fact, to the contrary, it seems to me pre-christian religion conceived of god's and demigods as heroes, strongmen, patriarchs preaching war and power, not meek victims who preached love.


If you could elaborate, I might come over to your viewpoint eventually. But as for now, I think you have totally missed it. What is taught in the Beatitudes is brand new at that time, and that's the best evidence that Jesus was real.




Re: what HE taught

vexen

2007-12-18 09:19 am (UTC)

"Nothing is New: Religions Evolve" by Vexen Crabtree (2007) contains general notes on how all religions inherit pre-existing beliefs from their neighbours.

Remember the Dead Sea Scrolls? "Dead Sea Scrolls" by Stephen Hodge, contains an account of them. Reading it, I noted many similarities and many occasions where what Christians once thought was uniquely Christian, is in fact older than Christianity. So here are some Jewish similarities:

p211-214
Hodge lists many of the similar practices of the Dead Sea Scroll community and notes which ones were the same as those teachings accepted by the New Testament writers.

* Common Ownership of Property

* Exorcism. "Allusions to this practice of exorcism are found in some of the writings from Qumran, such as the Genesis Apocryphon where it says, 'so I prayed for him ... and I laid my hands on his head; and the scourge departed from him and the evil spirit was expelled from him' (XX22.29)"

* Teachings on Divorce and Treatment of Enemies. "The scrolls have also been useful in providing valuable background information for ideas hitherto found only in the Gospels. For many years scholars had been baffled by the ban that Yeshua imposed upon divorce and remarriage, for this ruling had not been found in any other Jewish sources. but when works like the Temple Scroll and the Damascus Document came to light, it was soon noticed that members of the Community were similarly forbidden to divorce."

* The Ritual Meal. "Unfortunately, the account given by the Gospels of the so-called Last Supper has clearly been modified for the sake of later theological considerations, so it is difficult to unravel what was actually practised by Yeshua and his followers."

* The Beatitudes (p214). "Even teachings of Yeshua previously thought to be unique, such as the Beatitudes which he enumerates in the course of the Sermon on the Mount, find a parallel among the writings of the Qumran Community." One such work is called The Beatitudes (4QBeat) where a number of virtues are mentioned in a very similar spirit way to how they are in the New Testament. A series of beatitudes are listed which start "Blessed be they who...""

* Eschatological Dualism

* Literary Style and Terminology. "Writers in the Community used the unique pesher method of interpreting older scriptural texts in terms of contemporary events. When doing so, however, they expressed their interpretations in a heavily coded manner. As any student of the New Testament will know, the Christian writers also made liberal use of passages from the Prophets and other biblical books to prove that Yeshua was the Messiah and that everything that befell him was a preordained part of God's plan for the salvation of the world. Overall, the specific texts and the manner in which they were used by both groups to prove their respective claims are very similar, each having strong predilection for the Book of Isaiah"


erroneous "facts"

(Anonymous)

2008-01-21 12:14 am (UTC)

Most of your arguments are totally erroneous - here's a starting page with many links to facts about the historical Jesus - the evidence for His life, death and resurrection far outweighs the lack of evidence and the lies against.

http://lamplightmus.topcities.com/jclives.html

Re: erroneous "facts"

(Anonymous)

2008-02-22 06:00 pm (UTC)

Always remember, this universe should not exist nor does it have a reason to. The fact that it does itself is a miracle. Therefore to doubt the existence of Jesus is worthless. The reason, the jewish torah is already a proven fact. The Jewish people are serious and no the consequences of sin better than ANYONE on this planet. Therefore no Jesus means no forgivenss for anything. That means HELL or DESTRUCTION for everyone. How stupid/dumb can a mind be that doesn't understand its own conscious which knows what is right and wrong. (offcourse most killers have knocked unconscious the conscious mind so that it doesn't feel bad when killing someone.)

Therefore I say to all Atheiest, HAVE FUN for it won't last. A temporary mind deserves temporary blessings.


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