Vexen Crabtree 2015

vexen

Vexen Crabtree's Live Journal

Sociology, Theology, Anti-Religion and Exploration: Forcing Humanity Forwards



wow

(Anonymous)
i find it fascenating that u are saying all of this when christianity outweighs every other religion. i think you must have a very closed mind if you think this. how can something happen without a creator? don't you feel that life is pointless then? how can you live thinking that? and even if you are set on not having a god that will never leave you, make your life better, even if it causes suffering first, be there when noone else is then just look at the main principle of it:
love. keeping the peace and making people happy by doing nice things for each other. why do you have an issue with that? is it really such a bad thing?
there is more evidence that Jesus was real than Julius Ceaser. so how come everyone believes in him?
everyone says why would god let bad stuff happen? if thats ur problem then here's the answer: everything happens for a reason. Suffering and hardship ALWAYS has something good come out of it, weather its aquiring a state of mind or an actual good situation, therez always something positive. suffering better prepares us for life.
how can you deny he exists with that little evidence. and check this out: it is a historical FACT that Jesus was real. so u kinda cant deny it. if it wasnt for our religion you wouldnt have christmas, easter, halloween, or things like the NHS.
no offence but this website is pretty pathetic and based on a load of crap.
so i think you should get your facts straight.
:)

1. It doesn't matter which religion "outweighs" the others: What is important is which facts about reality are TRUE. Religions come and go; Christianity is the most popular NOW, but previously, Judaism and paganism were the most popular. It didn't make them true. Islam is the fastest growing religion and will outweigh Christianity later this century: It still doesn't say anything about which religion contains truth.

2. YOU believe that something can happen without a creator: God. If you believe that God, an intelligent being with emotions and willpower, following the rules of logic, can exist without being created, how come you find it hard to believe that the Universe wasn't created either, when it is not intelligent and doesn't posess willpower, but still follows logical laws. It has 2/3rds less complexity judging by those 3 attributes, so is more likely to exist uncreated than a God is.

3. It doesn't matter how 'pointless' I think things are, nor how the truth makes me feel. The truth is the truth, and my human emotions can't change whats true. In other words, even if I really felt that I needed a god to exist in order to give my life meaning, it wouldn't mean that there was actually any real gods aside from in my mind.

4. I have no issues with love; love is great.

5. Your comment about Julius Ceasor is crazy: Many hundreds of writers at the time and since wrote about him, whereas NO authors in the first century wrote about Jesus from first-hand knowledge. And, saying that "everyone believes" is informative is wrong: Everyone once believed the Earth was flat, too. They were wrong.

6. Your comments about suffering do not explain why god would have made suffering in the first place. For summary of such arguments see: "Introduction to the problem of evil" by Vexen Crabtree (2000)

7. Christmas is heavily pagan - mostly a collection of sun-worshipping practices - which is why some hardline Christian churches ban their members from celebrating it. Same with easter; an ancient pre-Christian fertility festival. But just because they are pagan, it doesn't mean that paganism is, or should, be true. You can't argue that because you like some human festival, the religious causes of it must be true, that's just wishful thinking and not a good basis on which to form beliefs.

8. Christianity held back medical science for hundreds of years - pagan Greek physicians and the middle eastern doctors remained far advanced of Christian priests, who suppressed secular knowledge even in colleges and universities. The NHS would have been founded earlier and on better science if Christianity WASN'T true, so I don't see why you mention it.

Re: wow (Anonymous) Expand
Re: wow (Anonymous) Expand
THERE is a jesus

Yes there is.... he is my gardener.

Jesus did not exist

(Anonymous)
and neither did satan. the jesus character was created [in association with the doctrine of jesus and god being one] by the church (roman catholic church) in 325ce at the council of nicea. prior to this in about 325bce, roman conquerors of egypt imposed the worship of ptolemy the first [the first european pharaoh of egypt] upon the people egypt. ptolemy was titled [egyptian name] mariammon setepenra soter [blessed of god, chosen of god, SAVIOR]. in fact the worshippers of ptolemy were called the bishops of christ according to documents predateing the common era - in other words before the year zero

Re: Jesus did not exist

(Anonymous)
what a load of rubbish

If the teachings of Jesus were so common at the time, howcome he kept being attacked by jews and other people! Give a few examples of other 'godmen' or wateva teaching others to love their neighbor,etc... Show us more proof before you make such statements.

You say Jesus has no history... THE BIBLE!!! Duh! its the most known book in the world and it is Jesus's HISTORY. If Jesus was a lie, howcome the Bible spread so quickly around the world. No other religion is as known as Christianity.

yes

(Anonymous)
Jesus does excist! :)

Thesis in nancient history: Constantine invented christianity

(Anonymous)
Nice set of web pages. Thought I'd leave a message. I have a thesis and a collection of background papers by which I am convinced that emperor Julian was speaking in an appropriately educated manner, and the (historical) truth of the fourth century when he wrote:

It is, I think, expedient to set forth to all mankind
the reasons by which I was convinced that
the fabrication of the Galilaeans
is a fiction of men composed by wickedness.

Though it has in it nothing divine,
by making full use of that part of the soul
which loves fable and is childish and foolish,
it has induced men to believe
that the monstrous tale is truth

Please feel free to check the alternate vision
of history at this address:
http://www.mountainman.com.au/essenes/

Best wishes,


Pete


Re: Thesis in nancient history: Constantine invented christianity

(Anonymous)
Hi Pete,

I have to say I admire your indept research into how Jesus was a fake or didn't exist or whatever. Look, I don't understand why people don't take a balanced view on this considering the fact that if its true what Jesus said(and I believe it is),then its the most important decision you will ever make in your life. What I'm trying to say is that I find it remarkable that people go to all lenghts to prove Jesus never existed or if he did then he's a fake. Have these people ever really looked into what he said,his relationship with people, and the mass off evidence which supports his existence and the fact that this man had such an impact on the world that we are still talking about him right now.
People say ah well I do know about Jesus, he lived along time ago,said he was god, did some miracles and then died on a cross, the sort of stuff you pick up from school, society or church. The fact is you may know of Jesus but you don't actually know him.
I think people want to believe he isn't true because they maybe feel guilty, maybe have messed up in their lives, maybe were brought up in a strict religious family and are angry at God or maybe are made feel not good enough by religious people.
Well if you knew Jesus you would know that none of these things make you a lesser person in Gods eyes, and he is waiting for everyone regardless of who you are or what you have done. Anyone who tells you otherwise - turn the other direction and run.
I don't know what your personal situation is, maybe you have had a great life, nice family and are just exploring ideas or maybe not, but where ever you are in life I would just suggest now using the same level of effort and maybe research the evidence that supports him and (IF) you do start to change your view of him, maybe ask him to lead you from there..
and I think you will be surprised.
I'm not a religious freak trying to force anything on anyone, I'm not trying to stand high and preech, I have my own screw ups in life (and lots of them) but wouldn't want anyone to miss out on what God has done for me & you, and the life he has in store for us both. I really hope all works out for you.

Take care, and tnx for reading.

By the way, if you want you can listen to these free discussions about the evidence which supports the existance of Jesus. Go to this link and listen to the first one <> - Its very good.

http://sermons.redeemer.com/store/index.cfm?fuseaction=category.display&category_id=23

You should really take a look at the story of the Easter Bunny. There isn't any real evidence for him, but if you think about it, he lived a life we all should. What could be more fun than being a little bunny foo foo hopping through the forest and hiding colorful painted unborn chicken embryo's?

There isn't any proof of Jesus' existence. Get over it. He's mythological and his story is just mirrors that of Horus that the Egyptians worshiped LONG before Christianity. Like the facts presented here, the early Christians didn't believe in a physical Jesus. That was invented when the NT was written and his story was borrowed from many sources.

Someone claimed that gods don't die and aren't ressurected in a metaphysical sense, but only in a real one, but this is just showing your feeble thinking. Look, if that was the case, how come all of the gods that Jesus' story practically mirrors also died and were resurrected and so forth, yet their believers never placed them on Earth? That's because they did believe in personifying their dieties, but didn't believe that they were actually people that walked among man, but rather that they died and were resurrected in a fictitious spiritual world.

your stupid

(Anonymous)
look at the facts!!!!
i am a smart teenager who has saved many people of their sin and seen their change! you say God-yes, God was jesus in human form- isnt real or couldnt have existed! God exist and has a special place for those who come of him and love him unconditionally-saved- and believe he came called heaven!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1

grow a brain!

to all fanatical christians

(Anonymous)
If you believe in the Christian Bible then you need to take a good hard look at some of the things this book says. First of all, to believe that we are all descended from two humans (Adam and Eve) is to say that you believe that we are all inbred. But WAIT! Don't Christians frown on incest? Sure they do, but you would never get an explanation from a priest if you brought this particular question up. Christianity is a religion based on scare tactics and hypocrisy. If you were to ever question anything at all that is stated by the Bible or a so-called "man of God" then you would most likely be told that you were damned to an eternity of torture. For what? Asking questions? Wanting answers? I myself find all religion to be harmful to the advancement of the human race. Religion is the source of countless wars and atrocites. History is filled with stories of these, including the Spanish Inquisition, the Crusades, and Christian conversion tactics during the European scourge of North and South America. Not a Christian? Have your own beliefs and thoughts? No problem. Visit your local Catholic church to have a raving priest flog you until you are forced to believe what he does. All the while these hypocritical bastards claim to spread a religion of love and forgiveness. I say no more. I say we do away with religion as we know it. Religions are nothing but fanatical stories and fairy tales. To me, there is no difference between Christianity and pagan worship of Zeus.

Re: to all fanatical christians

(Anonymous)
1.Ok First of all Yes as Christians we do believe we are all descended from Adam & Eve, although we can not prove scientifically this is the case, We also Cannot prove this is not the case either!! and in my opinion I go with Gods version of events.

2. Some people do preach Christianity using fear, intimidation etc.. This is not how Jesus thought,(although he did mention the consequences of not believing), the poor loved him, he gave them hope, he healed them and he wept with them. The only ones who wanted him dead were the religious folk of the time and political leaders.. We are called to love all people regarding of their race colour or religious beliefs. We are thought to serve, that is Christianity is about. Not what you mentioned but unfortunately there are people who tarnish the word of God.

3. Jesus never damned anyone to eternal torture for asking questions. He gave a firm warning to the hypocrites who were deliberately asking him questions to try to catch him out and hence have a reason to have him killed. Jesus could see through their hypocrisy. If you read the Gospels you would see that the ones who asked the most questions where the Disciples who were constantly asking questions and wanting answers, show me where Jesus banished them to Eternal torture. Infact they went on to spread the word of God through out Europe and Asia. Peter who then abandoned and denied him 3 times to save his own neck was later greeted by Jesus with a warming hug. Show me the scare mongering, Intimidation etc.. This is what Jesus was about.
4. Religion is only harmful when people use it to attain there personal Goals, but for the people who dedicate their lives to the poor in Africa, South America for no gain but do it because of what Jesus has done for them, this is not harmful, or the guy lying in the gutter who society has rejected because he has got a drug problem, it is not harmful (because it gives him hope, and shows him that God above all loves him just as much as the guy sitting in his penthouse office with 6 figure salary).

5. 'All the while these hypocritical bastards claim to spread a religion of love and forgiveness'. Unfortunately mate your right, they are hypocrites and responsible for twisting alot of peoples view of God, but when you see the atrocities of the Crusades and War and beatings etc.. done by people(or churches), Just read the Gospels and tell me is this the image of Christianity reflected, I think not.
Jesus was clear about one thing though. 'Not all those who claim to be my followers will enter the Kingdom of God' ' 'Many will say to Me in that day, ‘Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Your name, cast out demons in Your name, and done many wonders in Your name?’ And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice wickedness and lawlessness!’" Matthew 7:21-23.

I would hope that you do your research cause there is a lot at stake for not believing(that’s my opinion, don't shoot me down for having one). And don't take everything the church says as being the word of God. You could try asking God (If you ever believe in him) to guide your decisions.

Anyway you are entitled to your views on God & religion etc.. but I am a Christian but I would like to think that I am not a hypocritical bastard.

Only ignorant people could write something like this down. You say Jesus has no history? The Bible itself has more history than you will ever see in your life. There are records historical of His trial and sentence. I believe everything that you say has no stand. There is more history of Jesus in this world than there will be of anybody else ever.

The Bible was not written by any eye-witnesses of Jesus, and so many of the stories about Jesus are paralells with older myths and pagan equivalents, that many think the Bible was merely a re-writing of existing myths, using the new name of Jesus in place of pagan figures such as Dionysis, etc. This is the basis for saying that Jesus has no history - the only evidence comes from a book written with second-hand information, and there are no other sources of information. It is quite possible that Jesus has no history.

(no subject) (Anonymous) Expand
(no subject) (Anonymous) Expand
For anyone who says Christians are troublemakers, cold hearted hypocrites, look at this link. Here is one Christian not afraid to use his popularity to subtly get Jesus's message across on the world stage..

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gUdrYDk8rVA&feature=related

We all know there are hypocrits in the church and some who arn't in the church but call themselves christians anyway because they were born catholics or whatever.
But before you start throwing all christians into the same basket think about the ones who genuinley believe in christ and have dedicated their lives in the thousands to carrying out his will, whether simply expressing his love to the people in their local community or spending years in poverty stricken regions helping the poor.. Real Christians.

Oh and by the way as a previous guy wrote. Just because people say they're a christian doesn't mean they are.

paul's letters

(Anonymous)
Paul's letters are believed by most historians to have been written very early and they contain numerous references to Jesus and there is at least one version of the "apostles creed" in them that is remarkable. In addition, anyone making even a casual review of the number of original sources for many notable figures in history will note their paucity and see that Jesus is actually better documented than many. Your beliefs regarding Jesus' existence do seem to be a little 19th century. However, belief in his way is another matter. For that, a different sort of reality must be looked to. No one will try to prove that to you. There you are "on your own".

Re: paul's letters

Can you cite any historical evidence from someone who actually saw Jesus?

Or maybe someone who wasn't a Jesus-believing Christian? For example, a scholar or historian? Perhaps one of those useful authors who tended to catalogue and record Roman activites, known rebels, etc?

Or is it true that there are no first-hand witnesses, and no independent commentators on a historical figure of Jesus?

Re: paul's letters (Anonymous) Expand
Re: paul's letters (Anonymous) Expand
Re: paul's letters (Anonymous) Expand

Proof!? do you need proof to know someone loves you?

(Anonymous)
people today can only think about proof and how do you know its true
but that is where faith comes in

wake up and smell the incense

(Anonymous)
i, too was a total atheist, brought up in an atheist society, set up against God..however, after nearly 20yrs of hopeless depression, addiction and hammering the drink...i found my salvation. after meeting with the living God..after countless counselling, shrinks, chemical detoxes and fixes...i found my physical and spiritual healing. i cant see what all the anti-Jesus/ God stuff is all about...who,
in their right mind could refuse aGod who knows us by name, loves us with an unconditional fantastic love and wants the very best for us???? duh!! you are missing out on the best thing in your life. deep down all atheists are just scared, and/ or unwilling to admit that they do not control anything in their lives. allowing God into our heart means having a good hard long look at yourself and admitting you are lacking, lost and in darkness. this darkness often manifests as issues/ problems/ addiction/ self-absorption.
#it is scary when we do not see the real face of God and one listens to the wrong propaganda posited by popular media of an indifferent and punishing God. All I say is, get to know Him, give it a try and you wont be dissapointed if you seek Him earnestly

IF Jesus does not exist...then why do you spend often, obvious many hours writing a website against Him ???

you may hate Him but He still adores you

Godbless you brother

Re: wake up and smell the incense

(Anonymous)
Extremely well said..my friend.

RE: Jesus Does Not Exist

(Anonymous)
You mentioned that the New Testament is not regarded as reliable because it was written over the course of a hundred years. There are 24,000 copies/manuscripts of the text found and they can be placed within 25 years of Jesus' death. Sir William Ramsy, who is considered to be one of the greatest archaeologist to have ever lived, was educated with the idea that the book of Acts, as well as the other gospels and letters, are written much later and are just a fabrication. After more research he discovered that the books of Luke and Acts can be traced to 50 AD, which is around 20 years after Jesus' death. He said in one of his books, "Luke is historian of the first rank...this author should be placed along with the very greatest historians." William Albright, John A.T. Robinson, and Paul L. Maier are some other historians who acknowledge the fact that the New Testament was written within one generation after the actual events.

Jesus is the way, the truth , the Alpha and Omega

(Anonymous)
Jesus existed and exist: my best friend was delivered in the church (and both him and I was christian- catholics by birth and we did not really believe in Jesus as a living God)My friend did not know that his mom sacrificed him upon his birth. He did not know that until that day where I took him along with me to a church as invited by a colleague. When the man of God imposed his hands on Angelo's head and pronounced "in the name of Jesus-Christ" Angelo started to roll over the place and shaking.I was so shocked and stood speechless watching Angelo rolling like hell and then a voice came out from him: a woman voice ...we were in a church where the service was in English...then the pastor asked if someone spoke Italian. I raised my hand and he told me not to be afraid"this is the manifestation of deliverance when people are freed from evil forces". Angelo was still on the floor shaking like an animal in a terrible position. Then the pastor started to interview the demon! Who are you? in the name of Jesus Christ I ask you to respond. The voice said , mio mio - then I translated by mine mine...the pastor said, in the name of JC , Angelo is not yours! Liar, leave him in the Name of JC...Angelo was shaking even more that at least 6 men were trying to hold him vigoursly...at the end, the demon said that Angelo belonged to him as his mom sacrificed him at birth. He added his mother has great power from Satan and that she was one of Satan veterans. When asked what was her job : the demon in a women voice said that she would kill, destroy if needed to increase the kingdom of Lucifer. After 45 minutes, the leaders started to pray in tongues and saying loud "out in the name of JC. Angelo was jumping...the voice stopped...the paster said he is now free. Angelo was sleeping on the floor. I asked they pray for me too...but nothing happened. I had accepted Jesus in my heart but I did not know that people could be delivered in this extraordinary manner. Angelo continued to come to church and his deliverance was completed after 4 sessions as they were too many evil spirits in him. 3 months later, Angelo called his mother to ask her why she did that and why she never told him. She was hysteric shouting loud : "who told you? No one knows? Who told you ? I will kill the person and I will get the name of that person because don't you know I have a geat power? " Angelo was crying but yet he told her "I gave my life to JC and I am now saved. She was shouting "no no no no..."totally mad and hung up the phone on him...Angelo has now moved out of Napolitana wiht no contact with his family. He is now an evangelist and serves the Lord witnessing. I have never seen him that calm, happy and stable. God is great and our Lord did not die in vain but to give us eternal life...so please, those of you who doubt, just ask Jesus that He reveals himself in your heart. You will be amazed by the peace that you will get. The Holy Spirit will reaveal you the mystery of Jesus - Christ in a manner you have no idea..I love Jesus because He is my identity, the one who came to me when I had no idea what it meant. When you are with Jesus, you are filled with peace and you are born again because your heart changes, your eyes see, and your ears finally are receptive to his words. God is all, and Jesus was the divine response to suffering humanity. Please please, give yourself one second of doubt and make that simple prayer : Jesus Lord, I don't know you but you know me. Please help me find and understand the truth in you as my mind does not get it. Come with your Holy Spirit to touch my mind ,my soul an my body. I want to know you and feel your presence. I ask you forgiveness for my sin as I have lived away from you without knowing but with your power come and change my heart. " Thank you Lord for I leave in your hand, every single person that will pray this prayer and will search you. Touch him/her and reveal yourself to them, . Thank you Jesus Lord.
God bless every single person that might read this note. If you wish to get in touch with me please write at maralosaber@yahoo.com. Be blessed and healed in the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth.

GOD,JUSES AND THE HOLY SPIRIT

(Anonymous)
YOU SAY GOD DOES NOT EXIST,WHY?BECAUSE YOU HAD A TERRABLE CHILDHOOD?
GOD DOES EXIST,TAKE A LONG LOOK IN THE MIRROR,HE MADE YOU,BUT GAVE
YOU A CHOICE IN LIFE,YOU CHOSE SATAN,IF YOU DONT TURN YOUR LIVE
TO JESUS YOU WILL BURN IN HELL WITH SATAN AND ALL HIS FRIENDS,HELL IS
NOT A PLACE YOU WANT TO BE AT.JUSES CHRIST IS LORD,HE IS POWERFUL
DONT PLAY GAMES WITH JESUS.ONE DAY WHEN YOU DIE,IT WILL BE TO LATE TO
TURN TO JESUS,DO IT NOW,JESUS LOVE YOU,MAY GOD HAVE MERCY ON YOUR SOUL!

Jewish Solar Demi-god

(Anonymous)
No, Jesus never existed and the Dead Sea Scrolls prove this. Nor were the Yada at Qumran Essenes. That whole thing is a moot point for some of us not raised in any of the Abrahamic monotheisms. But if affect the world.

The worst thing in the history of humanity was the making of this Jewish version of a Solar Man-God Savior - just one more myth among myths so popular at the time: Harmless myths about the sun, celebratory myths. However, combined with the Torah (Moses, and Ezra especially) - this made a deadly combination a horrific combination that was not celebratory at all, but anti-human, anti-fun, anti-joy - it's something that has warped the human spirit irreparably. Sure, the Christian religion has done some good - but so has Hamas and so has the Nation of Islam. HA.

The result of making a Jewish version of the solar man-god combined with the co-opting of Jewish Scriptures was centuries of persecution against Jews. The result today is the fanatic need for Zionism, combined with a new Messianism - which might lead to World War Three in a world where quite a few countries have nukes. That's why it's the worst thing that ever happened. Ain't NOBODY gonna recover if we radiate the entire planet.

From my perspective

(Anonymous)
I am not your ordinary bible beatn' christan. I'm not here to say "God bless you! or anything of that sort. I just wanted to let you know that you need to dig deeper into what your beliefs are. It sounds like your taking science and all the the other hogwash to seriously. Beleiving in Hell or Heaven is a hard thing to grasp even for me at sometimes. I'm only 20 years old, I'm in a fraternity and I drink very often so I'm not the "babtist preacher" your thinking I am. I just know if theres anything to believe in this screwed up world I would rather put my trust and belief in Jesus. I would rather be on the safe side when wondering where I end up after death than being sorry for it afterwards. I hope this didn't offend you because I didn't want it to. Best of luck to you.

Caleb

Re: From my perspective

(Anonymous)
Good for you and well said.. Its the Bible bashing Hypocritical christians out there that give Christians a bad name. I'm an Evangelical Christian from Europe and Jesus is the most important person in my life but unfortunatly I don't always show it but I'm still on my Journey with him.
Best of luck to you too..

Keep believing.

do some research

(Anonymous)
Why dont you do some more reading before you make another post. You are dealing out some very out dated information (which I suspect you already know and just dont realy care about the truth). I would leave more of a message but I would be wasting my time.

how do you know that Suetonius and Pliny the Younger existed? are you going by written works or by the accounts of others? if so, then aren't you just selecting who to believe existed and who didn't? how do we know that Caesar lived? if all that we depend on is some writtings and other "evidence" or existance, then i could list off tons of manuscripts and archeological finds that prove that the Bible is as old as it claims to be, which means that it is historically accurate. prove to me that the Bible is historically inaccurate.

Beliefs should be formed around the strength of the evidence. Look into the actual evidence for the existence of Jesus - don't just assume that because Christianity has been very popular, that it means there must be evidence for the claims it makes about history.

I'll take you on: List a few of the manuscripts that you think prove that Jesus existed.

Jesus is a just a mythological solar allegory.
Christians worship a personification of the sun without even realizing it.

well ur an idiot...thanks for that useful bit of rubbish

...............

(Anonymous)
dear vexed
the manuscripts and primary sources that address and His life and the ministry of Jesus Christ abound, i.e.

From the Synoptic Gospels, Matthew, Mark, Luke and the fourth, John. Matthew and John were eyewitnesses of Jesus and part of the twelve. Mark recorded the teachings on Jesus from Peter, another eyewitness. Luke was a historian and Doctor. They all gathered oral and written accounts of Jesus and His teachings.

Paul had an encounter with Jesus and went on to write first hand accounts of his life changing experience and subsequent ministry.

These were all educated men and not all from a Jewish background.

these manuscripts have been studied extensively since the first century, many have tried to disprove them to no avail. if they are untrue, would
generations of scholars, bent on proving them as untruths, not have succeeded in ripping them apart and exposing them?
This is not even taking into account of the main theme of the old testament
which is full of prophecy from start to finish of the coming of Christ.

it is vital not to try and make sense of ancient styles and ways of writing from a 21st century perspective and come to the conclusion it is a falsehood based on that premise.. it would be like these ancients trying to understand our culture by reading text messages.

oral tradition was the main factor in most all ancient recordings of historical events. no printing press and not many were literate.

the teachings of rabbi's were handed down with meticulous authenticity and strict observance of maintaining the accuracy of the stories involved.

not to mention the non christian writers and historians at the time of Christ. as have already been mentioned in an above post

you say belief is based around evidence, i suggest you read the primary sources and evidence and not just other peoples interpretation of this material....??????

the evidence is irrefutable.

you also say belief is based around evidence

if you think carefully, your life will be filled with beliefs you indeed have and have no evidence for

'that's where faith comes in

faith in a living loving God is not an appeal to the intelligence but to the heart n spirit of a man, the deep and meaningful level of humanity

i pray you find the truth you are searching for bro'


lezann

JESUS did exist, but he's not the son of god.

He was a smart guy (philospher probably) who created a belief called christianity, and soon gained many followers.

Since he has such enormous support, the roman authority was threatened, especially after an attempt at rebellion by christians. As a result, jesus was considered enemy of the state and crucified.

Since many people believed in him back then, the false face that he's the son of god was passed on generation to generation, to now.


1. Jesus didn't create Christianity, his followers did. All the stories, parables and ideas in Christianity already existed in the two most prominent parent cultures, Judaism and Mithraism (and in Roman paganism in general). Jesus was simply a new name used to mix together some existing ideas; this name-change is something that occurred frequently in antiquity, although today we find it abhorrent. Tell me, if you think Jesus invented Christianity, do you care to tell us what exactly he made up that wasn't copied from slightly older beliefs and religions already existing in Judea?

2. He didn't have enormous support; Roman historians debate at length the pros and cons of various groups and troublemakers, and compared to most movements Christianity was so small it was only mentioned by a few people, later on that you'd expect from a movement with 'enormous support'.

3. The Romans did not catalogue the crucifiction of Jesus, although they did catalogue everyone else. It is almost as if Jesus wasn't actually crucified.

4. You say "many people believed in him", but, I think it is more likely that many believed believed in stories about him and passed those stories on. The stories were all already familiar.

(no subject) (Anonymous) Expand

sad

(Anonymous)
it's as i thought, i said earlier it was totally futile to try and convince vexed of anything other than his darkened mindset
i felt he had an agenda with his websites and writings
i sniffed bad experience with (so called Christians)
as i looked thru his other websites, i came across his testimony and yes, he did have bad experience with 'Christianity'
unfortunately, many churches are not Holy Spirit filled and very 'religious'
not showing the true love of Christ
then i seen Vexed's true agenda.he is a self confessed satanist!
eeek! he is messing in dangerous stuff
he says satan is a 'lifestyle' and not real
satan's greatest trick, convincing people he doesnt exist!!
vexed issue is pure and simple rebellion...against God
just like his idol
if God doesnt exist, why does he seem to have spent his life devoted to disproving God????????

and as for the 'evidence' he sites is his writing, these religions are Gnostic, which come from Platonism
and the guff written about in these threads is laffable
the supposed evidence
i am a 1st year theology student and could get into a debate with these folks but i'd be wasting my time

wait till most of these folks are on their death bed,
we'd soon see where their thoughts go, terrified!

BUT, they still can cry out to God at this point as HE IS LOVE

bless y'all

lezann

I notice you haven't presented any facts, evidence or arguments, but have instead relied on other people's reaction to my religion. As a theology student (unless you are doing one of those Christianity-centric thingies) you should be aware that religious arguments can be rigorous and demanding, and as such, you should probably be talking more about the issues involved, and less about my biographical details.

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