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Vexen Crabtree's Live Journal

Sociology, Theology, Anti-Religion and Exploration: Forcing Humanity Forwards


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Jesus did not exist

"Jesus Did Not Exist" by Vexen Crabtree

Re: Religous Experience

(Anonymous)

2007-07-26 08:45 pm (UTC)

Hi , Listen It sounds like you have had a bad experience in your early years with your church (I'm guessing so please forgive me if I'm wrong). I also grew up in a very strict catholic family and went to a catholic school, It amazes me to see how many christian churches and christians around the world feel the need to be forcefull in spreading christianity. Where is the free will in that. The irony is that christians are called to follow the life of Jesus. What did Jesus do when people during his time didn't believe who he was? well he didn't force them to believe, in a lot of cases he just left. The Sermon on the mount is a good example of this, after the people started walking away in discust shaking their heads at what he was saying, he turned to his deciples and said to them are you now going to leave too and when he sent his diciples out to spread his message he told them if you enter a house and you are not welcome, turn away and leave that house, he never condoned using any kind of force (whether mental(through slander) of physical)to spread christianity because by doing that you are taking away someones free will to believe what they choose, Yet we do it all the time. You also mentioned that 'the church and believers are often mor interested in 'playing God', unfortunatly you are so right about this as well and it is sad that this is the case. But the thing is that we are at risk of rejecting God ironically by ourselves Judging who God is by the actions of his followers.
Two of my family members are christians and one is a pschyotherapist and is fully aware of the affects of brain chemical imbalance but if that was true look at how many true believers are in the world, that is alot of people with chemical imbalances.
Just to briefly comment on your last point about why God knowingly created the world knowing we were going to make such a mess. Well there is alot I don't understand myself about God but I do know he is hurting far more than we are about how messed up the world is but I think that God made us as free creatures because they are the only type of creatures who can love because love is something you do out of choice. you can't make someone believe otherwise they wouldn't be free.I suppose then we'd be like clones programmed to live a certain way but for the sake of the few who will be saved God has allowed things to unfold as they are.
I think the important thing to remember is that He calls us to believe out of choice not forcefully out of fear. The only time fear comes into anything througout history or in scripture is during judgment of some kind.
You also mentioned,' the church won't give a toss about you when you fall on hard times', my advice would be to walk away from anyone (or church) who claims to represent God or tries to spread Gods word through force or fear,or makes anyone(regardless of their race, sex or religion) feel inferior or less important just because they don't believe in Jesus. That creats divides and barriers which divides people and Jesus came to unite people.
Thats what jesus warned about when his diciples asked him about false churches or prophets, Good Churches bear good fruits(people), and should be there for you regardless of where you are in life. Unfortunatly I know this is not always the case.
And I know that a lot of churches will discriminate you because of maybe something you have done or a situation you are in, God does not discriminate and there is absolutly nothing you can do to make him love you any less.
Sorry to drag on a bit and I am sorry to hear of your experience. Its definitly not easy I can tell you, but I really do hope you find your way.
And you have probably guessed by now that I am a christian too <
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Hi , Listen It sounds like you have had a bad experience in your early years with your church (I'm guessing so please forgive me if I'm wrong). I also grew up in a very strict catholic family and went to a catholic school, It amazes me to see how many christian churches and christians around the world feel the need to be forcefull in spreading christianity. Where is the free will in that. The irony is that christians are called to follow the life of Jesus. What did Jesus do when people during his time didn't believe who he was? well he didn't force them to believe, in a lot of cases he just left. The Sermon on the mount is a good example of this, after the people started walking away in discust shaking their heads at what he was saying, he turned to his deciples and said to them are you now going to leave too and when he sent his diciples out to spread his message he told them if you enter a house and you are not welcome, turn away and leave that house, he never condoned using any kind of force (whether mental(through slander) of physical)to spread christianity because by doing that you are taking away someones free will to believe what they choose, Yet we do it all the time. You also mentioned that 'the church and believers are often mor interested in 'playing God', unfortunatly you are so right about this as well and it is sad that this is the case. But the thing is that we are at risk of rejecting God ironically by ourselves Judging who God is by the actions of his followers.
Two of my family members are christians and one is a pschyotherapist and is fully aware of the affects of brain chemical imbalance but if that was true look at how many true believers are in the world, that is alot of people with chemical imbalances.
Just to briefly comment on your last point about why God knowingly created the world knowing we were going to make such a mess. Well there is alot I don't understand myself about God but I do know he is hurting far more than we are about how messed up the world is but I think that God made us as free creatures because they are the only type of creatures who can love because love is something you do out of choice. you can't make someone believe otherwise they wouldn't be free.I suppose then we'd be like clones programmed to live a certain way but for the sake of the few who will be saved God has allowed things to unfold as they are.
I think the important thing to remember is that He calls us to believe out of choice not forcefully out of fear. The only time fear comes into anything througout history or in scripture is during judgment of some kind.
You also mentioned,' the church won't give a toss about you when you fall on hard times', my advice would be to walk away from anyone (or church) who claims to represent God or tries to spread Gods word through force or fear,or makes anyone(regardless of their race, sex or religion) feel inferior or less important just because they don't believe in Jesus. That creats divides and barriers which divides people and Jesus came to unite people.
Thats what jesus warned about when his diciples asked him about false churches or prophets, Good Churches bear good fruits(people), and should be there for you regardless of where you are in life. Unfortunatly I know this is not always the case.
And I know that a lot of churches will discriminate you because of maybe something you have done or a situation you are in, God does not discriminate and there is absolutly nothing you can do to make him love you any less.
Sorry to drag on a bit and I am sorry to hear of your experience. Its definitly not easy I can tell you, but I really do hope you find your way.
And you have probably guessed by now that I am a christian too <<but don't hold that against me... :)>>
Take care, and all the best
Thanks

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