2005

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Vexen Crabtree's Live Journal

Sociology, Theology, Anti-Religion and Exploration: Forcing Humanity Forwards


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Jesus did not exist

"Jesus Did Not Exist" by Vexen Crabtree

1. It doesn't matter which religion "outweighs" the others: What is important is which facts about reality are TRUE. Religions come and go; Christianity is the most popular NOW, but previously, Judaism and paganism were the most popular. It didn't make them true. Islam is the fastest growing religion and will outweigh Christianity later this century: It still doesn't say anything about which religion contains truth.

2. YOU believe that something can happen without a creator: God. If you believe that God, an intelligent being with emotions and willpower, following the rules of logic, can exist without being created, how come you find it hard to believe that the Universe wasn't created either, when it is not intelligent and doesn't posess willpower, but still follows logical laws. It has 2/3rds less complexity judging by those 3 attributes, so is more likely to exist uncreated than a God is.

3. It doesn't matter how 'pointless' I think things are, nor how the truth makes me feel. The truth is the truth, and my human emotions can't change whats true. In other words, even if I really felt that I needed a god to exist in order to give my life meaning, it wouldn't mean that there was actually any real gods aside from in my mind.

4. I have no issues with love; love is great.

5. Your comment about Julius Ceasor is crazy: Many hundreds of writers at the time and since wrote about him, whereas NO authors in the first century wrote about Jesus from first-hand knowledge. And, saying that "everyone believes" is informative is wrong: Everyone once believed the Earth was flat, too. They were wrong.

6. Your comments about suffering do not explain why god would have made suffering in the first place. For summary of such arguments see: "Introduction to the problem of evil" by Vexen Crabtree (2000)

7. Christmas is heavily pagan - mostly a collection of sun-worshipping practices - which is why some hardline Christian churches ban their members from celebrating it. Same with easter; an ancient pre-Christian fertility festival. But just because they are pagan, it doesn't mean that paganism is, or should, be true. You can't argue that because you like some human festival, the religious causes of it must be true, that's just wishful thinking and not a good basis on which to form beliefs.

8. Christianity held back medical science for hundreds of years - pagan Greek physicians and the middle eastern doctors remained far advanced of Christian priests, who suppressed secular knowledge even in colleges and universities. The NHS would have been founded earlier and on better science if Christianity WASN'T true, so I don't see why you mention it.

Re: wow

(Anonymous)

2008-02-19 12:43 pm (UTC)

Hi there friend.

I have been watching the activity on this forum for a while now and I have to say I am surprised at some of the so called facts being thrown out, and I think this goes as much for comments from christians and non christians alike.
Look I'll be honest with you, there will always be sceptics about christianity and as you mentioned it seems that today there seems to be a view of religion as a label(popular NOW) instead of a way of life as christianity should be.
I have been a devoted christian for many years now but it wasn't always like that. I have a very spiritually diverse family between Buddists & muslims (and I mean dedicated). I have asked myself the same questions you are asking for a long time but I have to say that I believe in my heart that Jesus was the human incarnation/manifestation of almighty God and the message he brings to us is true and should be taken very seriously. Don't get me wrong, I'm not trying to force my view on anyone, I'm just telling you what I believe.
The reason I believe this is because I have gone through the facts and evidence which is there to support the existance and mission of Jesus Christ, and lets face it they are quite strong, but the real and most powerful force which drew me to Jesus was something which happened inside.
Now before you start going into the Pschycology of things and how the brain and emotions work, I am aware of this and for that matter two of my family members are both pschycotherapists and are also believers, but what I am talking about is very different and extremely real.
Anyway I totally respect your opinion and you have made some very valid claims and points but I would ask you to look deeper inside and see if there is a reason you are so hostile to the thought that Jesus is who he claims to be, although having read through your comments it seems that you are not a fan of any religion(sorry I could be wrong).
The truth is that I would agree with you on this if I was to judge the authenticity of any world religion based on the actions of the people who practice them. This is especially true for christians who can in fairness be the most hypocritical of them all, but it is made very clear in scripture and also by jesus himself that 'few are those who will be chosen' & 'not all those who claim to be my followers will enter the kingdom of god'. In fact if you look at jesus' life and his interactions with people he was very clear and hard with the religious (emphasise the word RELIGIOUS) leaders of the time about walking around being critical and acting like moral police. Funny this reminds me of alot of christians I know today.. but please don't judge the message of christianity based on these kinds of people.

Continued on next post...

Re: wow

(Anonymous)

2008-02-19 12:44 pm (UTC)

Continued from previous post..

I have a whole lot to say about your point on the issue of suffering but just to summarise, while we are all talking about a Good, loving and all powerful spiritual force who we know as God (and rightly so), we should not for one second take our eye of the ball and forget that scripture is also very clear about the other side of the spectrum, an evil spiritual force in opposition to God who is responsible for the suffering, the doubts and hardships that go on in this world and believe me will stop at nothing to try and mislead and confuse our understanding of God and prevent us being saved.
Your next question will be probably: well if God is all powerful then why doesn't he deal with this problem and the answer in short is that he will absolutly deal with this at a time which he has already decided,this is clear througout jesus' teaching and also in dept in 'Revalations'
The truth is I don't know why God allows evil to exist right now, but to be honest I am not in a position to understand (or even begin to understand) the reasoning behind why God allows certain things to happen. but I do know that when the time comes, God is just and Good and somehow things are happening and unfolding like this for our own good.
Sometimes I think we like to think we have all the answers but the fact is we are living in a universe far more complex and vast than we would ever be able to physically comprehend. Even down to the smallest molecule we still can't understand some basic elements which make up life and how they seem to magically interact together. I mean we are still only starting to comprehend our physical surroundings, making new discoveries in the rainforests and oceans every year, if we can't understand these things then how can we begin to understand God plans.
Anyway, very sorry if this dragged on a bit but thanks for taking the time to read it anyway, hope it didn't bore you. This is a little of what I believe but I fully respect your views and opinions and I hope you find whatever answers you are looking for. Many thanks

A believer (John 3:16)

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