Vexen Crabtree 2015


Vexen Crabtree's Live Journal

Sociology, Theology, Anti-Religion and Exploration: Forcing Humanity Forwards

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Mithraism and Constantine

Where do you get your proof that Constantine was a follower of Mithraism? I have always thought that this was highly possible but couldn't find anything to support this belief.
The Catholic church is full of Mithraic sacraments and many other traditions such as the belief in life after death which is not biblical (pagan belief commonly held by all churches who have stemmed from the Catholic religion), the reverence of Sunday instead of the Jewish sabbath which Christ observed. The Catholic church itself admits to having changed the day in the Catechism. I would be very interested to hear where you found the information to support your statements. My email address is

Re: Mithraism and Constantine

Well I disagree Paul did not teach the doctrines which the modern day Christian Churches practice for example the title Rev and priest no where do we find Paul or any of the Apostles useing or taking these title to themselves. Paul predicted that after his departure (Death)there would be a falling away or turning away from the truth.
As for free will all that I can say for now who really has free will in all things well we mortals certainly do not, there is a lot of horrible things happening in the world that I would like to stop but I am powerless so my will is very limited, and Paul did not preach pagan Gods but spoke the word that he was given and if he were here today there is quite a few Churches he would shake up and pull into line for their failure to preserve the truth. From Paul


Armenians were the first race to accept christianity, Gregory the illuminator spread christianity to the west. Persians were nothing more than slaves to the Armenians at the time. Armenia was a big empire dating back thousands of years ago. But before Armenians accepted Christianity as a national religion, they worshipped fire. Grigorian chants? (Gregory the Illuminator) Armenians. Arians? Armenians.

you are pathetic. You deserve a Z for your knowledge of History. I have never witnessed such blatant rubbish

Mithraism and Christianity


Great article. However, you are wrong about the similiarities between Mithraism and Christianity. The similarities are between Mithraism and Catholicism. A huge difference. Followers of Jesus were first called Christians at Antioch. Now you need to find out what was happening at Antioch. One important fact about Jesus - he NEVER claimed to be "a god" or "the god". He stated emphatically and unequivically that he "is God". That's why the Jews wanted to kill him.

Religion is a man made term used by men who are trying to have a relationship with God on their terms and not those of God.

Take care,


Re: Mithraism and Christianity

Yes, that's a good distinction to make, thanks.

Re: Mithraism and Christianity

Jesus never said that he was god, or god's son this is out right blasphemy
that was uttered from the mouths of demons and those that were possesed by demons. however he did say that he did not come of his own but of he who sent him. jesus was question by Allah if he asked people to worship him and his mother, he said, Ya Allah, you know what is in my heart and i know not what is in the hearts of men for they do lie on me and my mother,for you know that we made no such claim. Message to the Christians as long as you continue to eat your gods flesh and drink his blood how can he save you! youre right, paul did not speak of himself, he spoke on behalf of the devil himself. Jesus son of Mary was no more than a Messenger of Allah. Note to all Christians. Salvation is not in a sacrificial blood drinking flesh eating ritual, nor in a suicidal god king who had to come down and pose as a human only to be killed by humans so he can save humans. you say that he did this to conquer death so that all who worship him may live again. if he had to conquer death then that means he did not create death and if he can succumb to death by the hands of men for three days. that means he is not god. And then if he was god and could have prevented himself from succumbing to death but did not. this means that he commited suicide. Oh Christians Salvation is in Islam and the law of Islam.

Please for your own sake and the sake of your children, accept Islam and avoid the testimony of jesus and his mother that is going to be against you
in the last days of Humanity.

Hello Vexen,

I admire you interest in religious history and your journal. My only suggestion would be to use information from actual current Mithraic scholarship instead of the few sources you used. If you were to enter a debate with someone knowledgable about current Mithraism, you would be soundly defeated. Almost all current Mithraic scholarship rejects the idea that early Christianity was influenced by Mithraism. This is because there is absolutely no link between Iranian and Roman Mithraism. The only similarity is the name of the deity. While there was some ceremonial influence on the 4th century Church, it is far more likely that Roman Mithraism was influenced by Christianiy. This is because the earliest evidence we have of Mithraism in Rome is late first century, with most of the evidence from the second, third and fourth centuries. Paul's epistles had been in existence long before Mithraism was even in Rome. I'm not a right winged Christian or something like that, I'm just a guy who's interested in religious history like you. I have posted some links links that outline the current beliefs in Mithraic scholarship. One of the links is a rebuttal to some of the current misunderstandings of Mithraism and Christianity. Even though it was put together by a Christian, it is based on sound facts. Thanks for the great site!
Gordon, Richard. Image and Value in the Greco-Roman World. Aldershot: Variorum, 1996

I find it hard to believe that Mithraism pre-dated Christianity by coincidence, and had nothing to do with its creation, just b/c it was Persian. I can’t imagine a real historian ignoring all the parallels between them (and the cult of Osiris) without first being infected by Christian partiality. Mithraism became the dominating religion of Tarsus, where Paul was from, in 66BCE. Tarsus WAS a part of Rome. Are we to forget that Paul was in fact working as a henchman for a High Priest of Mithras, as well? And the influence of the Persian Empire on the Greeks cannot be ignored either. One myth breeds another. It's the way it has always been.

Two Relevant, Historical Points

In 2005, Darrell W. Conder put out a new edition of "Might is Right or Survival of the Fittest" with a whole lot of great footnotes generously peppered throughout it regarding historical events, pagan religions, mythology, wars, famous/important men, etc.

Footnote number 50 says that "Hasidic Judaism teaches that 'Satan is but the extension of the left side of GGod Himself,' And that Zoroasterism and Gnosticism "taught that God and Satan were brothers, which is revealing since modern scholarship recognize that ancient Judaism borrowed much of its religious tradition when Jews were captives of the Babylonians and Persians."

It's funny to me that it took humans 1 million years on this earth, going from first believing the Sun was God to making up thousands of gods, until one day Zarathustra (1500-1700BCE) came along and declared there is only ONE God and POOF: monotheism was born and all hell broke loose.

Anyway, here's footnote #148 which has much more to do with this page:

"The Roman Catholic Church teaches that the Communion wafer and wine, when consecrated, become the actual body and blood of Jesus Christ. The church adopted this doctrine from the pre-Christian worship of the Persian god Mithra, whose rituals (including a "holy communion") are virtually identical to those found in primitive Christianity."

Re: Two Relevant, Historical Points

Correction, Zarathustra dating back to 600 BC. you could refer to hundreds of refrences. don't you think that its more mature to post a thread once you researched enough?


The sheer desire to MAKE facts work to one's point of view repeats itself again and again...

Mithraist culture was THE DOMINANT one in Tarsus where SAUL came from....his writing far too easily subscribes to Mithraist thinking to be sheer coincidence...also as you mention PERSIAN CULTURE had a major impact on Greek culture....thanks for pointing this out

This is only partially correct. There are two kinds of Mithraism, but the Roman one arose at the same time as Christianity. Which influenced which is a matter for debae, so when the poster writes, "it is far more likely that Roman Mithraism was influenced by Christianity," he's not giving any evidence for the "far more likely." It seems to me "far more likely" that they influenced each other or shared common origins. At any rate, the similarities between the two should unsettle anyone who thinks that Christianity is original and unique. Also, it was Mithras who had his birthday celebrated on December 25th. Christians are known to accomodate existing religions in order to prempt them--consider the Christmas tree and the fertility festival of Easter, both more ancient than Christianity itself, and both pagan.

What about the Virgin?

I noticed you mentioned in your Paul of Tarsus page that, in this Persian myth, Mithras was born of a virgin. Yet this page, which revolves entirely around Mithraism's parallels with Christianity, you left that crucial point out completely. That's surprising to me since the virgin birth is such an important part of Christian theology/mythology.

Re: What about the Virgin?

Dr. Ceisiwr Serith is a Indo-European Reconstructionist...he knows well about this god, because he worship pagan gods...go and see what he says about this Christ-Mithras stuff...
have good time reading...
and then close up this page.

Re: What about the Virgin?

I hate to burst your bubble but 'Dr. Ceisiwr Serith' is obviously a liar, and knows nothing about Mithranism. Every point on his page is either untrue or originates from his inablity to tell the difference between roman and persian branches of mithranism. I will only go to the trouble of refuting one of his lies here: He states that 'the earliest knowen Mithridic reference in 90CE (that is 90 AD in old money), and therefor mithranism must have copied christianity' this is a lie, you can find that out just by reading the posts above, Paul of Tarsus was dead long before 90AD and at Tarus was already the center of a global religion long before he was born. The 'real' earliest reference to Mithranism is the treaty between the Hittites and the followers of mithras in 1375 B.C.E.

Christianity vs Catholicism

From reading the site here it seems that there is major confusion. Catholicism is the bastard child of Mithraism and Christianity. Not Christianity. Many people believing Catholicism is a denomination of, or the first Christin belief system, make this error. Catholicism corrupted The Way, which was the first Christian "church"...and much of modern Christiandom is still effected.
Those there are still those who follow The Way most have absorbed some if not most of the Catholic/Mithradic beliefs, ie: SunDay worship and transubstantiation.

Re: Christianity vs Catholicism

Your mindless bigotary is an insult to the human race. Recall that the elements of the mithran faith where the virgin birth, the twelve deciples, the death and resurection, the eating of the body and blood, and the trinity. If you say only catholcism borowed from mithranism, then show me the christan denomination that does not believe in the virgin birth, the death and resurection, the eating of body and blood and the trinity?

Re: Christianity vs Catholicism

Elements of Mithraism and other pagan religions were adopted by apostate Christianity. The Bible provides no date of birth for Jesus, and Paul argues against sharing with unbelievers. (2 Corinthians 6:14-18)


There is still no proof that either Jesus or Mithra were real people. Seems more likely that the catholics stole a story form an earlier story about a person who was not real.

I was just on a catholic site that did not believe in Mithra, but thinks Jesus was real. Without these silly stone age stories the human race could move forward.

Re: Mithraism

There are 2 names in the history, 1- Jesus, 2-Messiah and these two are 300 years away of each other. Roman Cult foiled the proof. The real prophecy is 300 BC (based on the current Jesus calendar).

I sincerely did research on music, languages, cultures and religions in college and found out that they are derived from each other. None of them got created overnight. I think you have done a marvelous job and you may not have all the data which are not expected in few pages, but at least this causes the readers to do their own search rather than stick to the belief that they have been brought up. You are speaking of truth and not too many religious groups would like it, but we have to stick to the truth!!

Mithra worship, Paul, and Christianity

Some of your facts on mithra and constatine are correct, however on Pauls involvement, you are sadly mistaken. First of all, you can check the history books and see that Paul, formerly Saul, persecuted the christian church and he was a staunch follower of Judaism. He arrested members of the Christian church. Saul's coversion was real. Mithra was/is the God of Constatine! When Constatine prayed ( battle of the Milbene Bridge), he assumed that he received an answer from the Christian Savior( In this sign conquer - A Cross ) and he joined the Christian church without ever obeying, " You must be born again - St John ch 3 vs 1-7." He brought in his mithra traditions! But the Gospel, The Jewish Jesus is backed up by prophecy and history. Historians have called him a majician, charleton, and the like, but they all agree he existed which is the most important thing; That is proof outside the Bilbe!I am not a christian, I am a Spiritual Jew ( Roman ch 2 vs 28-29 ). I believe that Jesus is the Christ, the son of the living God(Hebrew God). My belief is backed up by action!Also the Sabbath ends on Sunday and one can worship on Sunday!Mithra worship is real and many have been tricked into thinking they are worshiping the Jewish Jesus the Son of the living God, but they are not!They don't read and research and they are not seeking him. Most of them, like Constatine, want to do as they please and want Jesus to give them some money! The TRUE JEWISH JESUS, NONE OF YOU KNOW, BECAUSE YOU REFUSE TO OBEY HIS COMMANDMENTS. He has been portrayed as a liberal who accepts anyone, fags, lesbians, sinners,whoremongers etc..., yet he(Jesus) told Nicodenus, "You must be born again, of the water and the spirit(st.John ch3). And Romans ch.10vs9 is not the plan of salvation! If anyone wants to know more, contact me at J.Crosby and I'm out

You are mistaking Catholicism for Christianity. Catholicism is Mithraism! For some great vid's that will explain it all to you go here:

You might want to start with the vid "Man Behind The Mask" and go from there. You will learn alot of true history thru these videos, I know I did.

Mystry Religions and Christianity

Christ was an historical personage, recently born in a well-known town of Judea, and crucified under a Roman governor, whose name figured in the ordinary official lists. Mithra was an abstraction, a personification not even of the sun but of the diffused daylight; his incarnation, if such it may be called, was supposed to have happened before the creation of the human race, before all history. The small Mithraic congregations were like masonic lodges for a few and for men only and even those mostly of one class, the military; a religion that excludes most of the human race bears no comparison to the religion of Christ. Mithraism was all comprehensive and tolerant of every other cult, the Pater Patrum himself was an adept in a number of other religions; Christianity was essential exclusive, condemning every other religion in the world, alone and unique in its majesty. Further, and probably the most damaging, there is simply no evidence that the mystery religions exerted any influence in Palestine in the first three decades of the first century. The manuscrip evidence we have shows that the teachings of Jesus and Paul are those given in the New Testament and the availability of ancient text prior to 300 AD are extensive. Also when the Mysteries of these religions finally began to borrow from Christianity and come up with religious expressions like Gnosticism the early Church vigorously renounced them as pagan myths. The complete lack of resulting syncretism is difficult to explain if Christianity was ultimately a derivative of such paganism? As the Apostle Peter emphasized in the first century "We did not follow cleverly invented stories when we told you about the power and coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, but we were eyewitnesses of this majesty." (2 Peter 1:16) Anyone who has done a serious study of the Mystery Religions will see that they are so radically different from Historic Christianity that Mythraism dies the death of a thousand qualifications when you try to prop it up as the source of Christian theology it becomes laughable to all except hard core atheists and skeptics who merely want to discredit Christianity not on historical grounds but because they hate the message it conveys.

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