2005

vexen

Vexen Crabtree's Live Journal

Sociology, Theology, Anti-Religion and Exploration: Forcing Humanity Forwards


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2005
vexen

Refuting Monotheism

Refuting Monotheism: There is no God


Re: The entire idea of arguing about the existence and nature of God

vampire_logos

2005-06-08 03:12 pm (UTC)

[[You start your arguement by putting God in your boxes. By so doing, you have turned Him into a straw dog - a nice turn, but totally without merit. To say that God is this or that, or that He is limited to this or that human assumption is ludicrous. You have proven nothing but that you are (like the rest of mankind) yourself limited in your ability to comprehend God as He is. If he was just like us, He would not be God at all!
Sorry - but you only human after all.]]


I don’t think you’re quite understanding the nature of logic.

The idea that a Yahweh-type ‘god’ would necessarily be unintelligible is reasonable I think (which is why I’m an agnostic atheist).

However, I’m sure vexen is not suggesting that “premise x” is real world true, but it doesn’t have to be.

For instance, I can state that an omnipotent ‘god’ cannot exist in our universe simply because of the nature of what omnipotent means. The very concept of an omnipotent thing leads to an existential paradox. An all powerful being would have the power to be powerless and yet all powerful at the same time. Anything else would be a limitation in power, right?

Would an “all mighty’ being be able to have the power to nuke a microwave burrito so hot it couldn’t eat it? The point vexen has made (perhaps in another part of his site than you are looking at) is that any alleged ‘god’ must theoretically subjugate itself to logic. The alternative is pure “disordered” chaos in my opinion. That would be meaningless.
For instance, consider the previous point. What would be the “meaning” of an all powerful being that possessed the power to be at the same instance powerless as an expression of its omnipotent power? The unintelligible is meaningless.


LOGOS


Re: The entire idea of arguing about the existence and nature of God

ourfire

2005-10-03 07:25 pm (UTC)

How can you be an agnostic atheist?

"Would an “all mighty’ being be able to have the power to nuke a microwave burrito so hot it couldn’t eat it?"

I see what you are saying but God doesn't need to eat.

"For instance, I can state that an omnipotent ‘god’ cannot exist in our universe simply because of the nature of what omnipotent means. "

God doesn't exist in our universe. In fact, if you asked me my honest opinion, our universe does not exist, not in the way we think anyway.

If you deny God, you deny yourself.

Re: The entire idea of arguing about the existence and nature of God

(Anonymous)

2005-11-08 03:02 pm (UTC)

ourfire

How can you be an agnostic atheist?

"Would an “all mighty’ being be able to have the power to nuke a microwave burrito so hot it couldn’t eat it?"

I see what you are saying but God doesn't need to eat.

"For instance, I can state that an omnipotent ‘god’ cannot exist in our universe simply because of the nature of what omnipotent means. "

God doesn't exist in our universe. In fact, if you asked me my honest opinion, our universe does not exist, not in the way we think anyway.

If you deny God, you deny yourself.





[["How can you be an agnostic atheist?"]]

Because agnosticism is about knowing, or something being theoretically knowable (or not) and atheism is simply the negation of the word "theism" which is a word about belief, i.e. I don't believe in any 'god' or 'gods'. Agnosticism and atheism are not degrees on the same progressive scale.


[["Would an “all mighty’ being be able to have the power to nuke a microwave burrito so hot it couldn’t eat it?"

I see what you are saying but God doesn't need to eat.]]


No, apparently you don't see what I mean. "I mean" a matter of logic, not burritos.



[["For instance, I can state that an omnipotent ‘god’ cannot exist in our universe simply because of the nature of what omnipotent means. "

God doesn't exist in our universe. In fact, if you asked me my honest opinion, our universe does not exist, not in the way we think anyway.]]


The "universe" is the universal set of all that objectively exists. If 'god' exists, then it is part of the universe. If it does not objectively, physically exist, then it is fiction at best.

[["If you deny God, you deny yourself."]]


I don't "deny" that which apparently does not exist. I'm merely waiting to ANYONE to give one iota of reason to believe in fairy goblins.


Unconscious masochistic tendencies often take on the effect of being a curse when one is magic-minded. Christianity is simply one means of turning that "cursed" self-mortifying mindset into a self-denying version of a "virtue". The only problem with this idea (other than the fact that it is some degree of self-destruction) is that love, giving and forgiving, when given freely, is not sacrifice. When it is (so called) a sacrifice, the goal is not really love, giving and forgiving, but to "measure up" in a larger authoritarian masochistic ideal...to be "worthy" of love and forgiveness yourself. The thing is, anyone who has love and forgiveness that is worth striving for will not ask you to diminish yourself in order to please it.

Self destruction and self mortification are evil, not a demand of (or from) any source of goodness. Such a "sick" impulse to please others by diminishing ourselves is born of insecurity, not from a position of self worth or self esteem.

Within the model of Pauline Christianity, it is "wrong" for me to tell you that you have worth and value beyond being chattel for 'god'.

These should be all the clues you need.

Have a nice day.

The Vampire
LOGOS


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