July 26th, 2005 11:57 pm (UTC)
Re: Logical flaws
Your first argument I agree with mostly, but I think that there needs to be both qualifications made and also to define what would be an arbitrary reference point by which God would choose something to be good.
Atheists will always run into inherent problems when assuming that morality can come by means of logic alone. Kant sought to do just this and his morality turned into pragmatism but Kant never abandoned his presupposition that God does in fact exist. Sartre, Camus, Russell, huxley and the like all admitted lucidly, candidly, or elusively to the necessity of an eternally good being for the qualifications of objective morals. If in fact morality is simply pragmatic and societal, then what qualification comes to the defense of one angry at another human for an " injustice", or "ill-treatment" On what system of values rests the propensity to vindicate the perpetrators of crimes against humanity. What authority has lended itself to finite, intellectually limited beings for the sake of justice by means of honor and value?
During the NUrenburg trials, one of the accused stated exactly this argument. He claimed that his actions were based on the morality of his land and that his actions were in strict coherence to what they believed to be both right and Good. His pragmatic answer was silenced by the prosecution which called upon a morality which was higher than that of the countries themselves. I also find it remarkable that those who endured the greatest single event against the history of men still maintain a sense of right and wrong. But more important, they accept a system of right and wrong qualifying it by something autonomous to themselves and their ill-fated circumstances.
If you are thinking that I have yet to introduce any evidence on the side of logic than I appologize for the mistake, but in my estimation, our experiences hold a greater sense of understanding than that which we may theoretically propound in the consequent free environment of our minds. I am only seeking to show that the test of truth is not just the systems of logic which we may apply to ones argument. As we all can understand who study both logic and philosophy, truth is far more difficult to prove then showing a simple syllogism and or truth table applied to our argument. What we have to understand is that God can not be disproved nor proved. The non-existence of God may not be proved or disproved since neither position is empirical although i believe one to be epistemological.
I also find it ironic when you spoke against the non-truth claims made by the site itself. Yous said that if nothing is true than what is the point of this web-site. Well may I suggest that you re-read your statement and answer the very justification of a claim to truth. You said that if nothing is true, this web-site is destroyed but by what admission can something be truth if truth is not autonomous from the existence of all thing. If truth can be autonomous, than by what logic will prevail for the proving of the non-existence of a God who is autonomous from man. Why is one legitimate and logical and the other seen as being foolish and whimsical.If all that exists is space, time, and matter contructed by chaos and chance, than there is no alternate reality; there is nothing autonomous from that which is physically tangible.
Most often I here of the argument which Hume so desperately sought to justify was the statement which, in essence, says that all volumes of Divinity are nothing more than sophistry and illusion since they are neither scientific nor mathematic. The logical contradiction is that the statement itself is neither mathematical nor scientific and is posited in a metaphysical form of argumentation nullifying the statement itself. Logic, truth, and God would all necessarily be casted to the same fiery tomb since non of these systems and/or entities are mathematical or scientific.
One last thing, if God exists, so also does he have an inherent and intrinsic personality and charcter which can not be deviated from. Only in the answers offered by the Bible can one see that God is inherently Good, Just, Loving, kind, fair, and is truth. These are the cornerstones of our knowledge, our desires, and our personalities.