2005

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Sociology, Theology, Anti-Religion and Exploration: Forcing Humanity Forwards


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2005
vexen

Natural Evil

Natural Evil such as Volcanoes and Earthquakes are Proof that No Good God Exists

What about the conclusion: Since God knows everything, he knows best and has reasons that we are unaware of

Until we are aware of them, or at least think of some possible reasons, the conclusion that god is evil or immoral is justified.

natural evil and God (Anonymous) Expand
Re: natural evil and God (Anonymous) Expand
Re: natural evil and God (Anonymous) Expand
Re: natural evil and God (Anonymous) Expand
If God built the Earth, he must have left it half-baked because it seems not to be cooked properly... perhaps he just can't follow the recipes correctly... mind you he is meant to be male :D

Happy New Year.

~Azazel~

The corruption of the natural world and the diacotemy of man.

(Anonymous)

2004-01-21 06:49 am (UTC)

In order for you to even see my point of view, you will have to do two things: one you will have to presuppose that the Bible is true, and secondly, you will have to step outside of your own worldview and into a Christian worldview, if for only a brief second, to grasp my arugment against your position on God.
Having said that, lets take a look at why there is suffering of the innocent in the world. First, nature is the design and construction of God. At the fall (this is the main focus of my position) sin entered into the world. Sin did not enter in as a man or figure bound to roam the earth. Rather, sin entered into the genetic makeup of the natural world as it was. Thus, nature literally became corrupted. Nature itself was now on a path of corruption and decay. Secondly, sin entered into the diacotemy of human beings. Humans are made up of two things: a spiritual self (that is to say the consciousness or the "i" we refer to when talking about ourselves), and a physical body. At the fall of Adam and Eve sin entered into both aspects of human existence. First, our physical bodies were raped of life and left to slow grow into our death. Secondly, our spiritual selfs became cut off from God thus leaving us spiritually dead and with no hope of eternal life. It is because of sin that the natural world seems to harm and kill human beings. And it is because of sin in the diacotemy of man that we have genetic problems, cancer, death, innocent suffering, war, and ect. Also, if one is a Christian of Biblical understanding then they would know from the account of Job as it were that God can in his great nature alone allow the suffering of any of his people to show their trust and loyalty to him above all else.

This post was not ment to change your view, but it was meant inform you so that you can persue this subject or continue making grandeous remarks based solely on your interpretation of the world.

Re: The corruption of the natural world and the diacotemy of man.

vexen

2004-04-21 10:35 am (UTC)

Your presumptions:
* Nature is the design of a God
* Nature was designed perfect
* God created sin
* God created a mechanism for sin to corrupt nature
* God didn't stop sin entering nature
* God didn't stop sin entering Human nature (which would have prevented the fall)
* Once the fall occurred, God didn't remove sin, didn't heal nature, didn't (like a good parent) heal it's children

Why on Earth would your God create sin and corruption in the first place?

god's existence

(Anonymous)

2004-04-21 07:43 am (UTC)

I am just curious...

if god is indeed a superior being... how can we label him by human qualities such as "good" or "bad"... isn't it possible that his existence cannot be confined through values that we conceive as "good"? Perhaps the reason why we cannot understand "Him" is because we do not have the capacity to understand beyond vague qualities such as good and bad.

Re: god's existence

vexen

2004-04-21 10:29 am (UTC)

... or in other words, our ideas of "good" and "bad" are arbitrary, and God would better be considered neutral or unknowable.

Other aspects of powers we traditionally grant God, though, do indeed mean that under any logical system it seems impossible to say that "God is good" (such as saying "everything God does is good" (by whoever's standard) implies that God CANNOT by will do something wrong, and is therefore morally inept: neutral.

i think this is a load of rubbish god does exist the only reason that there is poverty and evil is because god has given humans free will so god will not intefere with what humans do because if we didnt have free will you would be complaining that you couldnt do what you want.

What you've relied on here is the "Free Will Theodicy", which has been thoroughly proved wrong in history. The existence of free will does not explain the existence of evil.

See http://www.vexen.co.uk/religion/theodicy_freewill.html for detailed texts and multiple proofs.

Natural Evil/Suffering (Anonymous) Expand
(no subject) (Anonymous) Expand

God is evil

(Anonymous)

2005-01-02 02:31 pm (UTC)

As the Bible indicates, Lucifer rebelled against a perfect God and in doing so sinned. He was cast out of heaven and has sought to rule this earth. Thus a great controversy between God and Lucifer is now transpiring: Is God unreasonable and unfair, or is he/she fully good and compassionate? In order to display before the universe the true character and intent of the fallen Lucifer (Satan), God has obviously set limits on his/her freedom at this time to always interfere with the plots and designs of Satan. This is obvious because God permitted his/her own son to suffer and die on the cross. But in doing so, Jesus Christ, the Son of God, paid the price for all of our faults and sins. Only by letting sin run its course (which I hope will be over soon!)can God be sure that the host of angels and all the unfallen world can see that Lucifer's initial rebellion against God was unreasonable and totally self-serving. There's no greater evidence of the true character of Satan (who calls himself the prince of this world) than that the innocent and children should suffer as a consequence of living in a world where the banners of Satan reign: these are war, lust, pestilence, famine, terrorism, violence, perfidy, and natural disasters (which Satan evidently has some power over).

"Lucifer" is hardly mentioned in the Bible, and not in a negative light. http://www.dpjs.co.uk/lucifer.html (if your ignore the bit about Satanism at the beginning) is about this, see the footnotes.

The crucifixion makes no sense, see my full explanation:
http://www.vexen.co.uk/religion/christianity_crucifixionfacade.html
Jesus' death is not a logical part of god's plan, is unnecessary for an all-powerful god, etc. I'd say it's more likely to be an evil trick of Satan! (If I was inclined to believe it happened).

Why did God create beings such as Satan, why did God create beings that have a nature inclined towards Sin? What's the point?

And why would God let innocent people, animals, etc, suffer because of SOMONE ELSES choice? It's immoral, unjustified, illogical. The "good" god that you theorize about is a a confused liar, or a complete hallucination!

Re: God is evil (Anonymous) Expand
Re: God is evil (Anonymous) Expand
If we lived in a perfect world without natural negatives, then it would be far too clear that there is a God, thus removing any element of a test of faith. Also, if the world was perfect in its nature, then there would be no moantains, which are a result of the movement of the earths' plates (Causing earthquakes). Then mountains (Which balance the earth and keep it in a suitably fashioned orbit and rotation on its' axis) would not be there to preserve the environment and our atmosphere. In conclusion, it is not possible to reach perfection through physical means, while keeping the test of our faith fair and reasonably easy for humans.

God only needs to TEST, if there is something it doesn't KNOW. God knows everything - it knows EXACTLY what tests we will pass and fail in the future. So what's the point of the testing? Why not simply put those who will fail into hell, those who will pass into heaven, and not have to bother with all the confusion inbetween?

And why is a test necessary at all? Why does God create people that can fail this test?

If God is good, and cannot fail such a test (as it obvious it hasn't failed, given that God is in heaven), then why didn't God create many other beings that are also good, but yet do not fail such a test?

Given that, when God creates a given person, it knows whether it is creating someone that will pass or fail, why does it create ones that will fail?

Re: Perfect world (Anonymous) Expand
Re: Perfect world (Anonymous) Expand

Natural evil?

(Anonymous)

2005-09-03 03:08 am (UTC)

In reading your comments about an "evil god" or why He allows natural disasters if He is in fact "Good", I found an educated response from another website that I believe answers this issue with Biblical integrity and preciseness. Here is the author's conclusion after a lengthy essay about how and why earthquakes (natural disasters) occur:

"Conclusion: In view of the recent Sumatra disaster, some are asking, as noted earlier: “Why does God allow these horrible catastrophes to occur? Why does he not prevent them, or divert them away from where people are, or defuse them once they begin?” These questions doubtless are sincere, but they fail to take into consideration all the facts.

One might as well ask: “Why does God let people die?” They do – every day. According to the latest statistics, 153 thousand people worldwide die each day. That is almost 56 million per year. But we know why visits us. “Therefore, as through one man [Adam] sin entered into the world, and through sin; and so spread to all men, because all sinned” (Romans 5:12). is a divine appointment (Hebrews 9:27) as a punishment for humanity’s corporate responsibility in rebelling against the Creator (cf. Genesis 2:17).

Similarly, the blighted conditions of today’s globe, which are the result of our forefather’s rebellion against God, are the price tag we have picked up on account of human sin – because humanity continues the legacy of the corruptness characteristic of our ancient ancestors (Genesis 6:5,11; cf. Romans 8:20-22; 2 Peter 3:5-7).

Let us therefore close with this little exercise in logic.

No wickedness, no Flood.
No Flood, no change of earth’s environment.
No change of earth’s environment, no geological disasters.
Thus, no wickedness, no geological disasters.

Now just who is responsible for the trouble on this “planet in rebellion”? The fault for these disasters is not God’s. It is humanity’s!

We should be humbled by these events, and brought closer to our Maker – rather than ely accusing him of injustices."

Re: Natural evil?

(Anonymous)

2005-11-29 11:25 pm (UTC)

It seems to me that you are fitting in facts that fit your needs and ignoring most of the facts that do not support your argument. Perhaps if you did some real research you would learn something. I particularly enjoyed the argument where you countered someone's statement that earthquakes and the increase in natural disasters are caused by mans contamination of the earth. You quoted it's not possible and that you know your science very well. Obviously you completely ignored most science such as the studies on algae samples in the ocean for the past 50 years (which is about as far back as you can go on most research) or chaos theory. Also I love your judgement of god as evil because of things you neither researched nor understand. You judge god as immoral and evil based on human views and "needless suffering". Why don't you sit down with the old Testament and read paradise lost. There are also countless scrolls in the Vatican's archive you can try to dig up which would offer some insight on god. You instantly assume that death is evil as well as human suffering because you don't approve of it. Life is a test and what kind of test would it be without suffering and free will. Here is a bit of knowledge for you about free will. God mad the angels and one third of the angels in heaven rebelled because god gave man a soul. The rebelling angels were cast down from heaven into hell and Satan sword to twist man to do the opposite of what god's will's man to do. You seem to state that this proves god is immoral and evil but you ignore allot of the fundamental facts. First man and angels have free will because without it we would not truly be anything more than a rock. God's will on us is never imposed over our own or the angels. God neither created us or the angels to be evil but we became so of our own choosing. God did know this would happen of course and this was part of his design. now while this may seem evil at first you must realize that our souls are immortal therefor we cannot truly die unless we choose it. We choose it based on deeds not words though some religions feel that they can offer absolution it clearly states that only through god (or "Jesus") can we go to heaven. Now fallen angels are said to be whispering in our ears telling us to do wrong and god is in our heart but doesn't tell us what to do just what is right and wrong. Also some scrolls, books and historical data suggest that fallen angels (demons or devils) do at times cause natural disasters just to cause us pain and to turn from god. I am sure you will doubt that any of this is true but if you really get into the "real" documented cases of possession and events that have been both predicted and well documented you will see some interesting connections. Do not allow yourself to ignore history and science just to impose your personal view or follow an un-educated viewpoint. Instead research it for yourself and not just in the new Testament investigate other religions and documentation. Try to find out who wrote it, when it was wrote (what were the customs then and beliefs) and there personal history. You discount the writings of the bible as scribbling but you fail to do it justice. It is a work based on the writings of several people and institutions and each one was within their own paradigm. I will end this scribbling with a statement from a security training manual I once read that has stuck with me for many years as a great truth. "There are usually at least two sides to every story and the truth is usually somewhere in between"

Re: Natural evil? (Anonymous) Expand
Re: Natural evil? (Anonymous) Expand

God does exits

(Anonymous)

2006-06-26 07:15 am (UTC)

who ever runs this website is completely wrong and missing the facts about everyting
u dont want to believe in a god so u try everywere u can to contradicted urself
if u want to use the Bible as proof thaat God i evil
read the Bible completely and use common sense
when it says that Cain took a wife it does not say when he took does it so it could have been his sister his niece his cousin or a distant family member he could have waited years if not decades to get married
god does not create evil yet he does not want His supreme creation to serve by force but because they want to
because luv God
denied him all u want
when u are in hell dont complain that u did not know the truth

Re: God does exits

(Anonymous)

2006-07-01 02:29 pm (UTC)

Hey, dumbfuck. Learn to spell properly, first of all. Secondly, I don't give a shit if I land in Hell or not. You people are so stupid. Not EVERYTHING is categorized into good and evil. Nobody is condradicting everyone else, and people can believe different things than your stupid fucking God. I've read the Bible, and when I did, I couldn't believe it. While you and your people say that this is the true theory, then how can you say that another person's theory isn't true? You say all else is false. Well, what if it isn't, and you are just denying the true meaning of it all? Oh, did you also consider the past of the Church? Women burn because they are thought to be "evil". Anyone who says differently from God is killed. What kind of good God does this, and what kind of followers believe this is a good deed?

Re: God does exits (Anonymous) Expand
Where are you people getting this idea of free will from. No where in the bible is free will ever mentioned. In fact in the bible everything is said to be god's will. I guess people will believe blindly anything. You're posting comments on this site which obviously you've never taken the time to read. THERE IS NO FREE WILL. PLEASE DIRECT ME TO WHERE IN THE BIBLE THERE IS ANY MENTION OF FREE WILL. I think some of you are just bored trying to start stuff cuz you have nothing better to do.

Not only does the existence of God logically, philosophically and theologically deny the possibility of free will, but the Bible also says that there is no free will! Examining the writings of St Paul, the Biblical books of Ephesians, Romans, 2 Timothy, 2 Thessalonians and Revelations, we see that God's plan overrides our free will; those that do good do the specific good that God predestined them to do, and all others are ruled by Satan because God sends "powerful delusions" to them. The Christian Bible frequently states that God creates our future and decides our fates, no matter what our own will is. It constantly denies that we have free will.

My page on The Bible and Free Will examines the mentioned verses.

if god was real.......

(Anonymous)

2007-03-13 07:53 pm (UTC)

if god was real he would be able to prevent suffering with his 'miricles' but obviously not so there is no good god!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

"free will"

(Anonymous)

2007-03-17 05:08 pm (UTC)

"FREE WILL" "FREE WILL" "FREE WILL" !

This is what people shout out to you when you ask why Adam, Eve, the Devil, or anybody would choose Evil, but it doesn't make any sense to me anymore.

I used to be an avid believer in free will, but then came to some realization that there's no way it could really exist. I mean if everything is caused by something, then how could our wills be "genuine first causes" (or whatever the smart priests and people say about it) if you have to "want" something before you "chose" it then the desire is forcing you to chose what you want, therefore the desire is to blame not the choice, and you can say "well I could have not listened to my desire" , but the choice to not listen to your first desire was just caused by another stronger desire alltogether from a different part of your brain, so it's still not free will doing the causing. I think that the illusion of free will evolved as a tool to help us decipher who we can punish and reward to create deterrant and thus a survival advantage.


GOd created free will and if people choose to do evil, that is their problem and they will be answering for their mistakes...He's not going to take them by their hands and lead them to salvation. It's what their decisions that they are going to stand before God and repent. As for Earthquakes, God said that in the end times one of the sihns would be earthquakes, which we now see. It's a sign and it's not like we deserve any better anyway. For lots of people have the opportunity to come to God but only a few are able to survive Spiritually

Er, many planets and moons have earthquakes, I don't think our Earth earthquakes are actually anything to do with free will, but rather with the way geology works. I don't think God, if it exists, was a very good engineer.

STUPID WEBSITE

(Anonymous)

2009-11-01 06:48 pm (UTC)

YOUR A STUPID WEBSITE!!!!!!!!!!!!!
YOU SHOULD RESPECT OTHER PEOPLES BELIEVES AND STOP BEING SO BIAS!!!!!!!
FOR GOODNESS SAKE GROW UP!!!!
WHO CARES IF THERE ISN'T A GOD? YOU DON'T HAVE TO TRY AND CONVINCE EVERY SINGLE PERSON , AND TRY AND CHANGE THEIR BELIEVES!!!!!!!!!

GROW UP!!!!!!!!!

STUPID WEBSITE

(Anonymous)

2009-11-01 06:55 pm (UTC)

YOU ARE SOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO STUPID AND BIAS!!!!!!!!!


I HATE YOU AND YOUR STUPID PATHETIC WEBSITE!!!!!

SADDO

(Anonymous)

2009-11-01 07:07 pm (UTC)

DO YOU KNOW WHAT???
I BET YOUR SOME SAD SAD SAD LITTLE PERSON WHO HAD NOTHING BETTER TO DO BUT CRUSH PEOPLE WHO ACTUALLY HAVE A LIFE AND BELIEVE IN GOD!!!

AND WHO HAD A NAME CALLED VEXEN?????? AND PICTURE OF SOME STUPID CHILDISH MONSTER??????

YOU ARE SO SO SO SO SAD!!!!!!!!!

FIND SOMETHING BETTER TO DO AND STOP MAKING PEOPLE FELL BAD OK??

P.S THE IS ANONYMOUS SO DON;T BOTHER TRYING TO TRACK ME DOWN LITTLE SAD PERSON!!!

:P :P :P :P :( :( :(:(

I think you may have touched a few nerves with this post.

My religious acquaintances (some fundamentalist/evangelical, some liberal/"new age"), who tell me how wonderful God is, and how grateful they are to Him [it], engage in many good deeds, such as feeding and clothing the poor and hungry, caring for the sick, aiding the oppressed, and protecting the environment.

(I do a few of these good deeds myself, though without talking about my [non-existent] religious belief.)

As they are not stupid people, at some level they must realize that God does not create or allow so much suffering solely for the purpose of allowing them to feel good about how virtuous they are by trying to alleviate suffering. I am not holding my breath waiting for them to admit this or discuss how evil their God must be.

Natural Evil

(Anonymous)

2012-11-26 03:00 pm (UTC)

Natural Evil basically against humanity...
I have a question:
What Church of Satan think about Necronomicon (not Simon version)?

give me answer by email, please.
xadax.e.sharra@gmail.com


The Necronomicon was invented by the horror writer H.P.Lovecraft ; he used it in many of his short stories as one of the various occult and magical books that would be used by sorcerers and occultists.

The Church of Satan have an accurate and brief FAQ about this subject: http://www.churchofsatan.com/Pages/FAQnecronomicon.html

Re: Natural Evil (Anonymous) Expand
thx 4 the info, considering i use my imagination as part of my survival tactics, this is fine, proving that life is a continual learning exp. 4 me

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