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Vexen Crabtree 2015


Vexen Crabtree's Live Journal

Sociology, Theology, Anti-Religion and Exploration: Forcing Humanity Forwards

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Vexen Crabtree 2015

Problems with Heaven

Problems with Heaven: Free Will and Evil

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Re: you are dumb!!!

Death Emblem,
I happened to stumble across this website and had to post a comment. The problem with our society is that many people do not understand doctrine in the Christian church. Now I am not condemning you or anything, but I would love to know if you have read the Bible? God does give the opportunity for people to hear about the gospel. In fact, one of the future signs of Christ's return is in Mark 13:10 which says, "And the gospel must first be preached to all nations." You seem like a smart person, but I believe God will not come until everyone hears about Christ. His love saves sinners like myself. God gives you the free will of becoming a follower or not. I don't think God wanted to MAKE anyone love him-- what kind of love would it be if it were forced? Because He must let us choose Him or not, He must also let us make other choices. My question to you is why not believe in something where you can have eternal life rather than rot to nothing here on this earth? I know God is real and He is continuing to do great things in my life. God reveals himself more to me each day than ever before. Only when you search and trust in God with all your heart will He then bless you beyond belief. For there to be no God, why are so many Bible stories being revealed through archeology? If you look in the Old Testament, I have even realized that God is full of great power and is an angry. I would be angry too, like what you said in Exodus 32, because Moses saw that people were worshiping a golden calf. The people were killed off because they were a bad influence as Israelites. Then you talk about the passover in exodus 12. The passover happened because the pharaoh of Egypt would not let God's people go. God gave pharaoh many opportunities to let the slaves go, but did not. I personally like at the passover as something that was necessary in order to be an eye opener for pharaoh. I don't think you should base your religious beliefs upon the Old Testament. The church formed its' beliefs upon the New Testament. Christian, which means disciple, is derived from the book of Acts in chapter 11. The church started as a means to educate people about Christ, follow Christ's example, and send them out as "disciples" into the world. God has love for you! Just take into consideration John 3:16-17, "For God so loved the world that He gave His one and only Son, that whosoever believes in Him shall not perish but have eternal life. For God did not send His Son into the world to condemn the world, but to save the world through Him." God didn't have to send His Son to die for me, but He did. We no longer have to make sacrifices to God for our sins because Christ was the ultimate sacrifice, He was the Lamb that was slain. My sin has been covered by Christ's blood.

Re: you are dumb!!!

The free will argument does not work, and was abandoned by the great theologians of Christian past in the early centuries. Don't rely on it without researching the reasons why early Christians stopped using it as a logical argument.


If God wanted us to know all about the things you say, God would tell us DIRECTLY, in our native languages, straight into our heads. It wouldn't rely on fallible humans or language translations to spread such important message. If It wanted us to know, It has the power to tell everyone simultaneously. It doesn't do that. God does not need YOUR help, It is omnipotent and if It wants anyone to know something, It would simply let them know! There's no much merit in claiming It would go around publishing books and speaking through prophets and the like!

Re: you are dumb!!!

I enjoy the fact that you try to research everything about Christianity. As a matter of fact, I can't even begin to understand as to why you don't believe in a higher power. Who created you then? Because then you could easily get into the stupid discussion of how an atom was created and junk. There is no basis for the beginning of times except in Genesis 1 where God spoke and things were created. All scripture is God breathed. The Holy Spirit worked through people in order to record the events during the biblical era. To say that God does not directly speak to us is ludicrious. God speaks to me alot when I am quiet and in my dreams. If you are willing and open to what God will do in your life, He will bless you beyond belief!
God works through us Christians. Why should He speak to everyone at once when we have the freedom to choose whether or not to accept Him? No matter how you look at it, there will always be that one person who will not believe in something.
Another thing that I do not understand about what you write is on the basis of using the Satanic Bible. If you are an athiest, why do you quote things that are from Satan? huh. If you do not choose to accept any religion, why Satan?
It seems like you are afraid of God. Granted everyone should be! There will be coming a time and a place when God will send His son back to get His followers. I hope that by planting this seed in you, God will open your heart and that you will choose to accept Him. I hope I can see you in Heaven one day and I always want you to remember that there are people out here praying for the lost and especially just for you!:)

Re: you are dumb!!!

"God works through us Christians. Why should He speak to everyone at once when we have the freedom to choose whether or not to accept Him?"

People only have a choice AFTER they know the facts. Why doesn't God give people the facts?

I wasn't "created", I am the process of other chemical processes, which have been going on for billions of years.

If you want to say, "I believe everything has a cause EXCEPT God" then what is the difference from me saying "Everything has a cause EXCEPT the Big Bang?". We both believe in ONE uncaused thing... your position is more illogical, though, because there's no proof of your cause but lots of proof of mine.

Re: you are dumb!!!

"People only have a choice AFTER they know the facts."
-Except, when they flip a coin. They have a choice, heads or tails, fact-of-the-matter is, they don't KNOW how it's going to land, but they still have a choice.

"Why doesn't God give people the facts?"
-He does, they're in a book called: "The Bible"

"I wasn't "created"..."
-What is that supposed to mean? Are you questioning what the word "create" means? Does a printing press "create" newspapers? Does a stamp "create" coins? Do wombs "create" babies??

"...I am the process of other chemical processes..."
-The chemical proccesses that "created" you? Or the chemical processes that didn't "create" you?

"If you want to say, "I believe everything has a cause EXCEPT God" then..."
-Actually, I don't recall him (or her) saying that.

"...what is the difference from me saying "Everything has a cause EXCEPT the Big Bang?"."
-The difference is people aren't saying "Everything has a cause EXCEPT the Big Bang," they are actually saying "The Big Bang was caused by..."

"We both believe in ONE uncaused thing..."
-No, your's is suppoesed to have a cause.

"your position is more illogical, though..."
-But it's not. God does not have a cause, therefore there shouldn't be need for an explaination. The Big Bang is supposed to HAVE a cause... which is what? You don't know, which leaves you with something that YOU didn't explain, which means YOUR position is illogical.

"...because there's no proof of your cause but lots of proof of mine."
-Actually, there's no proff of yours.


Um, Vexen, What would you say started the big bang?

i agree that people cannot choose if they dont have any knowledge of what they are choosing. Thats good sound logic. The bible says that God did not leave himself without witness in the world. I believe that He made everything and that just like an artwork tells a bit about the artist creation speaks about God. If you go and walk in the mountains or go for a surf then you have experienced something of God. I am guessing that you spend most of your time in the city, it looks that way from your picture (although you do remind me of Ed from Live)
Try go out to the country sometime,even if you dont believe in God, it might do you good, what do you have to loose

Re: you are dumb!!!

i dont like calling my self a christian some times (though i am) but the problem is that i dont belive that people attually realise what calling yourself a christian means!real christians beleive that jesus Christ is the son of God or God himself part of the holy trinity and that he came to earth as a man so he could for fil Gods wil and die on a cross even though he had not sinned once.being a christian is not about pretending that we are holyer than thou or thinking that we are perfect its about trusting in Jesus and realiseing we are sinners all of us every one that has ever lived! (apart from Jesus) christians are no different to non-christians we have just realised our sin and know the way to be free from it! it will never be fully gone though until the next life! but every day we can ask God to forgive us and he will wipe our slate clean what ever we have done! being a christian is so wonerful and Jesus is the only way the truth and the life!

Re: you are dumb!!!

Do you believe everything your Little Voice in your head says? And I quote "God would tell us directly," bud if he was to tell us directly what he wants us to do 1. We would second-guess the instructions. 2 We would think we are Nuts hearing voices. 3. If god was to tell everyone his plan, you will still have goofballs (if I can use such word) pretending they didn’t hear the Voice or better yet misrepresent the information. Not that we already have that now. We would not understand God not everyone is of the intelligent to understand him let alone comprehend e=mc2 so to have all understand bring to a Childs level and tell all the same information make it simple and short and sweet but yet we still try to read into the message. When will we learn?

I clearly understand that we must believe by a faith that he Christ sacrificed his life for you and me and by HIS GRACE the gift he gives/offers to you that he saves you from total damnation, but you must choose the faith or reject it. That is the free will one is talking about not pink elephants.

How much more simpler can I put it? Your choice maybe?

Why do we debate such things as good or evil?
Can we not just understand that there is SOMETHING that has a better understanding than us?
Don’t we just use 10% of our Brain just think what would happen if the other 90% was Unlocked?
Would you fathom the thought that a being could do just that why don’t we use the full potential of our brain?
Why are the Apes or Monkeys not turning into Humans now they still would be evolving (sp) it just don’t stop.
Are we the only intelligent life forms in the universe? I hope not!

Re: you are dumb!!!

1. We wouldn't need to second-guess anything

2. No we wouldn't, God would simply communicate in a way that doesn't make us doubt the source. Do you doubt an all-powerful God can do that?

3. Of course you'd get those types of person. What's your point?

And finally... why would God create people who are not capable of understanding itself? And assuming that it has done so, then obviousy it can't then go forth and judge people FOR that shortcoming! Ignorance, in that case, would be irrelevant and the criteria would have to be other factors

Re: you are dumb!!!

Why would we not second-guess? We are Human we are by instinct curious and what to know the What IF’s. Therefore we would second-guess the information or better yet ask WHY?
Please explain why most would not act this way. We have it right now. Even if you have the total truth in front of you and were made known to all there will be those that are still IN DISBELIEF not everyone is created equal and not everyone will understand. Each has there own interpretation of there own understanding of what they perceive is right or wrong God would not create "people" to understand him in this way they would all be Alike. Hence the different in opinions and perception of the so-called "little voice" some people listen some don’t that would be you’re free will. The Doubting Thomas Syndrome has to see it to believe it (in this case hear it) even if that was the Fact they still would deny it.
Why would God want to create beings all similar and tell them exactly what he wanted them to do? I think he did called the BIBLE he explains in the text threw interrupters so we can understand him what must be done not all will come to the knowledge but some will. Not every Apple makes it to Harvest! Would you not agree?

God did create people to understand him we the Human have a vast intelligence and we considered, recalled, made or preemptive decisions based on our best efforts and therefore make our decisions and some will suffer from those. Just like stubbing your toe you forgot to turn the light on to see where you were going. Find the Light prevent the stubbing of the Toe.

Re: you are dumb!!!

(7b) Will God talk to us ?


Genesis 12:14-17

"And it came to pass, that, when Abram was come into Egypt, the Egyptians beheld the woman that she was very fair. The princes also of Pharaoh saw her, and commended her before Pharaoh: and the woman was taken into Pharaohs house (becoming part of his harem). And he entreated Abram well for her sake: and he had sheep, and oxen, and he asses, and menservants, and maidservants, and she asses, and camels. And the Lord plagued Pharaoh and his house with great plagues because of Sarai Abram's wife."

In the Old Testament days God dealt more directly than He does today. In fact, I was thinking the other day as I was getting ready for this lesson, there is a good book by Sir Robert Anderson entitled: The Silence of God. It is rather hard to comprehend. It is written in Old English, more or less. It seems like an odd title, but Sir Robert Anderson was a Bible scholar as well as the head of Scotland Yard. He must have been a layman. But, he was a tremendous Bible scholar. In his book, he draws this analogy of God constantly dealing in an intrinsic way with the Old Testament characters. But when we get to our Age of Grace, God is comparatively silent because we have The Book. God doesn't have to talk to us audibly. God doesn't have to appear to us in the miraculous. I always have to qualify that. That doesn't mean that I don't believe God cannot miraculously answer our prayers. Sir Robert Anderson makes a point of the fact that in this Age of Grace it is as if God is silent, compared to His dealing in the Old Testament,.

Think about that. We just don't expect angels to appear. I told someone at a class one night, "If all of a sudden on my way home at 11:00 at night I'd see a bunch of angels on the highway, do you think I could take it? I know I couldn't. I don't think you could either!" What if all of a sudden God would just appear as He did back in the Old Testament? It would crack us up. We're not prepared for that. And God doesn't expect us to be. Indeed, God is silent today compared to the days we are reading about. Here, God even appeared to pagan Pharaoh and revealed to him that, "This lady out there is not what you think she is. She is a man's wife."

Credit given to LES FELDICK MINISTRIES for the above text:

This sums up what i was trying to have you understand, of my thoughts on this subject. specifically the last paragraph

Re: you are dumb!!!

What if all of a sudden God would just appear as He did back in the Old Testament? It would crack us up. We're not prepared for that"

God can appear without causing negative effects. God is God, it can do whatever it wants. Why would God design us to "crack up" when we saw it? And given that God HAS designed us to be like that, God can easily negate that particular cause and affect! God can appear, and MAKE the person not "crack up", just like it's God that would make the person crack up. It's God's choice who "cracks up" and who doesn't.

It makes no sense that God would design us to "crack up" if we saw God, and it makes no sense to say that God can't appear without avoiding that affect!

Re: you are dumb!!!

Are you sure? Can you Honestly say that even if God himself was to appear in front of you this very moment? Would you then Believe that God actually DOES EXIST! and that he is not the Evil God you are talking about at all? Also that you would not be rattled? Even in your mind if he does or dont exist. If something or someone was to just pop up by you Are you not Scared? Everyone is caught of guard and startled till recognized. That is Human response, and regardless of how prepared one is you are still going to respond in some fashion either calmly or "crack up" as it was put before. Sure God can negate any action but he is not in the game to do so. We act of our role in life and we have our agenda. I suppose you dont believe in the Rapture of the Church? Even so: How are the ones that are left here on earth when those of the Body of Christ are taken in a blink of an eye going to explain the sudden disappearance of millions of people? Just imagine you are sitting at a table with 3 friends and 2 of them just vanished right in front of you along with 1/3 of the people around you. would you not then be in awe? Your Evil god that you choose to follow has you baffled! so be-it you follow him and make no mistake that when the time comes those that choose wisely and follow the light of the morning star shall see his glory and will embrace him. All i can say is Fire is not a flame i wish to play with.

Re: you are dumb!!!

You didn't answer my question... WHY would a god design us to be *scared*, *rattled* and *crack up* if we saw it? Why would a god design us to have that reaction?

Also, you admit that God can appear and simply choose *not* to cause these affects.

So... if God wants people to know that it exists (or if God is going to judge us according to our learned knowledge of the world), why wouldn't God give us the facts? Without the facts, how can we choose? If it DOESN'T MATTER if we believe in God or not (maybe, you know, our moral choices are more important than our accumulated knowledge), then God might not show itself.

You say "suddenly" but there is nothing "sudden" about the rapture described in the bible. Dead corpses come to life (not just spirits or souls), re-animate themselves, crawl out of their graves, and float into the sky along with all others who are saved. They all float upwards towards Jesus who is in the sky, (I'm guessing that if Jesus appears above Australia, everyone in Europe will float around the whole globe or tunnel through it, and vica-versa). You say "blink of an eye" but it sounds like something that could take a while!

And if that happened, I would probably start believing in afterlife, and maybe start believing in Mithraism or some of the ancient religions that invented the idea of the rapture of the dead into the Sun (or Sun God, of course).

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