vexen

More news, we are on the verge of passing an exemption to new anti-discrimination laws, which allow Christian managers or undefined "faith organisations" to fire gay staff.

The point of the law is to recognize that discrimination, especially by officials and organisations, against sexuality is unlawful. Yet rather than admit that these Christians have unlawful and immoral beliefs, the government is chickening out and considering an exemption!

(Um, is available in popular press news sites, I can go find links on request)

Society has, but increasing fundamentalist groups, with financial support from their USA parents, and much political adeptness, are giving our government a run for it's money. We don't have the rabid secularists over here to match them, though.

Thanks for the link. In addition to the threat of teachers being fired, however, there is more. Any "faith-based" organisation is exempt, but, there is no definition of that. So for example Mr Vard (behind the Vardy Foundation, who run fundie schools in the UK, and car salesman) could declare his car organisation faith-based, and fire his gay employees. All he has to do is play up the faith aspect and apply some political pressure (two things which he is very good at) to do it, and no doubt evangelicals (who now comprise up to 2/3 of the Church of England) would no doubt do the same, being as anti-gay as you can get.

if it was restricted to faith schools/ church staff I'd understand, as sevearl charities can if presented with 2 candidates who a re Exactly the same can employ the one with the condition that charity represents for that reason. The chances of ever being presented with 2 identically ideal candidates is miniscule.

So within the refines of faith schools etc as long as they make it clear in their job specificatiosn that individuals must abide by that fiaths beliefs eg not be gay, though not necessarily of that faith, it may be exceptable..just

but only just

The new laws are a result of some Christian pressure groups, such as the Christian Institute, I wrote up some of their activities: http://www.vexen.co.uk/religion/christianinstitute.html

In short, it's not just new employees that'll be affected by the new law, but all employees of anyone who calls themself Christian. Any manager can declare his organisation faith-based, and any such evangelical can then fire gays & anyone else who doesn't support the "ethos" of the company.

Full quote:

Two Christian workers employed by Sefton Council have refused to take part in adoptions for gay parents. As such a thing is part of their job, they have been fairly enough been threatened with dismissal. The Christian Institute, one of the most active Christian political groups in the UK, is fighting for the two Christians cause "based on Christian principles".

"However, during the consultation on the Employment Directive [...] the Christian Institute - and other faith groups - fought for the right to sack non-Christian workers who didn't support the "ethos" of faith-based organisations that employed them. Now, it seems they think it is OK for Christian employees to undermine the ethos of secular employers and get away with it. "

The Christian Institute wants to be able to sack people for not having the same beliefs as themselves, Christians, but also wants Christians to be able to remain in companies despite having religious beliefs that undermine the job the employees are supposed to do. In short, the Christian Institute is not fighting for morals, but supporting sectarianism and discrimination based on religion, and undermining the stability of society.

It is my belief that if you cannot do a job, the employees do not have to pay you, and can fire you. So, if you object to doing your job for *whatever* reason, be it religious reasons, moral ones, personal circumstance, the boss can fire you. Now, in reality, if the logical reason is only a temporary inhibition, then the boss probably wont. And rightly, there are laws to protect pregnant women. But in the modern world, you simply can't discriminate against gays, even if you do believe they're "morally corrupt", because such discrimination causes hate and evil. But then again, the Christian Institute *is* famous for it's opposition of gay rights.

http://www.vexen.co.uk/religion/homosexuality.html

well it applies both ways, work for a chirstian group you 'd be expected to play by their rules, work for asecular non-faith group follw their rules :(

world sucks

Yeah, that's how it should be, at worst, but I think evangelical groups such as the Christian Institute simple want Christianity to be above the law, with exceptions and special bonuses to anyone who is Christian.

We don't get them too badly in the UK, the USA of course is much worse (most fundie groups here are funded by US organisations), but other European countries (Greece, Poland) have some big problems with fundies. In Poland, it is Roman Catholic fundamentalists that are the norm. A popular pressure group there is lobbying to not enter the EU, but they're terrible... they describe the EU as "pagan" and "humanist fundamentalist" because it's secular:

"We, the real patriots, we must say No to this neo-pagan union which wants to impose abortion, euthanasia and homosexual marriages on us," one guest said on the [group's] radio’s late-night chat show [NSS newline 2003 June)

i bet Jesus, they greatest man ever to live and the one misire, would be OVERJOY'D to learn of this

"look, i'm jesus..! *bounce*"

ok, what i'm worried about is gay kids in faith schools, i went to about five random schools. one was faithfull enough to make me say the things i say about cht=ristians, but the rest all sang hyms and tried to deflict that cristianity was enetitable

so what about gay kids, huh. this meens that equality is still a distent dream, don't it

damned humans

As Chomsky points out, "The U.S., in fact, is one of the most fundamentalist cultures in the world; not the state, but the popular culture."

Since he wrote that, it became clear that the current presidency is intent on pandering to popular ideology. Since there seems to be a majority in favour of public executions for selling cannabis to children, for example, this is deeply worrying, and no less barbaric than Sharia law.

That Sharia Islam gets a worse press than US Christian Republican Capitalism is largely a matter of spin - so far as I can see, the current US legislature and executive will gradually shift an indefinite distance to the right, and the only thing that will check them is overwhelming opposition from other nations, or a change in attitude by a large proportion of the population, followed by some decisive voting that can't be overcome simply by disenfranchising thousands of black Floridans.

I would hardly call the 17th centuary "The dark ages"

No, it was the Reformation, which was a relatively good thing, except for the purges/killings - which were on quite a small scale compared to many other normal/common/expected events in other countries and times in history.

It was also the time of The Republic when england effectively fell under the milletary dictatorship of the puritan zelot Oliver Cromwell. Burning at the stake for blasphomy was a painful fact and not uncommen in those days and since blasphomy could even include such inocent pleasures as celerbrating christmas or keeping a pet cat or being a woman who happened to piss of sombody powerful (and in rare casses being a man who pissed of sombody powerful) I'd say things were every bit as bad as they currently are in some moden regimes of a simular disposition (all be it of a different religion).
I would also add that some non-muslim countries seem to be heading slowly back that way and many still have laws that force a woman to go through with a pregnancy even if it kills her.

Yeah that's the time alright!

I think the scale of the antihumanitarian events during the Reformation were not the same as at other times - although it was still bad by modern standards, and I agree that it is comparible to some current countries.

Yeah, some countries are going backwards, too.

or, as douglas puts it, 'people aere a problem'

question, do they realy NEED to be RECOGNIZED as bisops..?

bloody humans

Reform, Church Society and other evangelical fundamentalists do actually want to get rid of Bishops... and I think eventually they're going to get their way too, as the Church of England and other Anglican Churches are in bad shape, financially, and the Fundamentalist branches with the C of E are bringing in the revenue - meaning they have power - combined that with increased efficiency of the Evangelical church model, and it's pretty obvious they're going to take over the Church of England.

So, fear people... but fear fundamentalism more!

fun~demented

it's a kind of thret you see...;~}

this is why i stey away from christianity. i had one HELL of a closset party due to the gits, the f'f, shall we say

well, maybee there HAS to be a religion for boreing people, as long as it don't get dangouse...

Vex, I read your Poly essay. It was great!
I now realize that my friends and I are
Polys. I didn't think there was a word for
our kind. I always just felt that my friends
and I have loved one another with a higher
consciousness than most people in society
possess. How nice that there is a term for
our philosophies! Your take on love reminds
me of a superb essay that I really think you
should read. You would enjoy it. Here:
http://www.katinkahesselink.net/kr/love.html

Thank you for everything. I love your essays
a lot. I learn so much from you all the time!!
Yay! Hail thyself. Thanks for having a
LiveJournal! Are you or have you ever been a
journalist? If not, then why?

- Nikki

:-)

That's good text on that page

:D!!

Scary titles... I don't see that an Islamic America is in the pipeline though, but recent events made me consider an Islamic France and an Islamic UK... but, even they are a long time away, and I think by the time this happens, Islam will have undergone it's own Reformation & Englightenment. Hopefully!...

Of those links, only one was by me.

Has it ever struck people as a good thing that we have an established church. Nothing like a beaurocratic, semi state-run organisation to ensure decline.