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Vexen Crabtree 2015


Vexen Crabtree's Live Journal

Sociology, Theology, Anti-Religion and Exploration: Forcing Humanity Forwards

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Vexen Crabtree 2015

Rolling Rs

I've been trying to roll my R's for many years, and have spent many many hours

1) laid in bed at night
2) in front of Ia'Kat
3) in front of others
4) whilst in the house alone

trying for long time to do it, and today it's annoying me! I've gone through a dozen different websites today trying to find any particular advise/method that I haven't heard before, but there's surprisingly few sites on it! Know any, anyone?

Do you think you can get surgery to edit your tongue so you're capable of doing it?

I can fake it by sneaking in an "L" sound after certain other consontants (Tr, Dr, Kr, etc) but this is useless if the word starts with an R or (as in most cases) the R comes after a vowel! *And* of course this fake is audibly different to properly trilled Rs! I want to do it properly!

Purr whilst saying the letter "r".

I do expect that once I've learned how to trill my R's, I'll also be able to purr without just unconvincingly saying "purr"!

(Deleted comment)
After days and hours of hissing, near-whistling and exhaling, I've never once got the tip of my tongue to flap!

I'd like a demo, but only because it's a purrrr-y sound and I'd never miss a hearing :-) There are no cats in this house :-(

But I'm not giving up yet! I go through a phase a few times a year of trying to do it, one year I'll get it!

Get a dictaphone. Get sombody to record a nicely roled r on to it and when you need to say it just play it back at the apropriate moment.

I doubt that your tongue is substantially different from the billions of French- and Spanish-speakers in the world.

As a disruptive tactic in case you're getting into a rut, I recommend twenty minutes of outrageous glossolalia, complete with Masai trills and ferocious gargling noises. You might find your tongue accidentally settling into the right position. The front lawn is a good place to practice, especially on warm Sunday afternoons.

In my head I constructed the pathetic little theory that some people can't actually do it (won't stop me trying though), but nonetheless there are entire cultures that have actively selected for the ability - so even amongst the Russians and Czechs, there are some who never learn to do it properly! (Lenin couldn't!, and neither can the Czech president do it properly! (Or so I'm told in "Teach Yourself Czech!))

I've been practicing some form of serpentine glossolalia, haven't tried gargling yet though, I've heard that mentioned before!

I'm a tad confused as to WHY you would want to roll your r's.......
However, Scot's tend to vigerously overuse our r's - As in "It's a braw brict moonlict nict the nict" (having gone with phonetic spelling since pronunciation is all important.) but the first two are excelent words to try rummbling rolling r's.
Again, having been laughed at for saying "carrrrr" really not getting why you would want this ability....

You're not alone. Dutch places some pretty hefty emphasis on the rolling 'R' (both gutteral and trilled). While I can manage the former variety, the latter is still damned hard after 5 years.
Incidentally, I also believe(d) that the ability to produce a trilled 'R' may have a basis in genetics, however recent small successes* are tempting me to believe it can be learned after all.

* In my case the Hugo language course 'Dutch in three months' helped a lot. If you like, I could send the text which touches on trilled 'R's and try to sample a bit from the tape.

Nah, I got double Czech tapes, and every word has trilled Rs (and trilled other letters too). Not to mention a host of other alien sounds! Thanks anyway :-)

Have you discovered how to do it yet? Because I still can't and just want to know if it's possible... Wow I didn't know yahoo searches would bring me to someone's livejournal lol

Ya, I cant do it either for the life of me. I honestly think it has to do with being born with it, lol.

Ive been learning Quenya Elvish from LotR , and its physically impossible for me to trill an r... You can tie my tongue down and blow air through it all u want but it wont make any noise.

I'm a trumpet player who recently finished a clinic with a Dean of music from a well-known University. The subject of growling (rolling rs) came up, and he said that he had never been able to do it, and needed to learn when he was in a choral group. By saying the syllables huh-duh-duh with a steady airstream, many times a day for roughly three months, working gradually on speeding up, he is now able to trill his rs on any pitch and in any manner. The rolling r is actually caused by a relaxation of the tongue with the air moving fast enough to cause the tip to vibrate, so repeating those syllables will eventually cause the muscle to relax enough to vibrate in the appropriate manner. Hope that helps.

my thoughts...

My first language was Romanian, growing up, and I recall being able to do it perfectly (rolling my r's) in fact, I tried to teach a friend how to do it in kindergarden. The problem is, after nearly 15 years of not speaking the language, I simply forgot how to do it. I can fake a quick-roll, on the top of my mouth, but I cannot do the continuous roll that at one point came so easily--fact is, it's a learned ability. And a forgettable one too, appaarently.

Re: my thoughts...

I can fake in the same way, but you're right it is useless for the continuous roll!

I've been trying to roll my r's for years. I feel like an idiot sometimes. I teach salsa dancing and need to learn to speak spanish.

After taking an Anthro. class I discovered that I have what is called a palatine process. It is a bump of bone on the roof of my mouth. Most people have a nice hollow opening. My thought is that the bump redirects the air flow. Do you have a palatine process?

I am going to talk to a speech therapist and see if there are any exercises that one can do to train the tongue.

Dang it, I've been trying to Trill an R for 3 weeks straight. It's annoying. I'm trying to speak Icelandic with some girls, and they can all do it like nobody's business. They keep telling me "It's so simple" And I just end up sounding like a dying boat motor.

I have found that the more I practice, I am progressivly moving the R sound out of the back of my throat and a little closer to the tip of my tongue. I really wish I had a recording of a proper "R" to listen to so I can compare my progress.

Herrrrrrrrrre's to learrrrrrrrrning how to do it rrrrrrrright. ;)

Finally, my support group.

Thank god, , I'm not alone. Have been trying to roll my R's for years (for Spanish). I can also do a "fake" version, but it doesn't work for words that start with R. A friend who could told me to say the word "butter" over and over and try to roll the "t" part. Didn't work. Can someone explain what part of the tongue contacts the palate or teeth or whatever during this? . I was hoping a good trill would compensate for my bad salsa dancing.

Last word on tongue's and R's...

Found this elsewhere; hope it helps...
(1") The pronunciation of the Spanish letter R can be difficult for students. It is pronounced by rolling or trilling the tip of the tongue against the roof of the mouth:
Open your mouth about as wide as you would to say "oh," but don't purse your lips. Position your tongue so that it lies straight, touching neither the top nor the bottom of your mouth. Bend the front half of your tongue and place the tip slightly behind where you would put it to pronounce T or N. The tip of your tongue should be lightly touching the back of what linguists call the "alveolar ridge" - the flat "plane" between your teeth and the "canyon" where your tongue usually sits.
Tense your tongue, but only let it touch this spot lightly. Exhale through your mouth, allowing your tongue to vibrate against the your mouth. It is essential for your tongue to be tensed, but for it to touch your mouth only lightly. If you are touching this spot too hard, you'll end up saying something like "D, D." Too loose, and you'll just whistle. Most Spanish students will find this easier after 1 or 2 shots of tequila, preferably Cazadores or Patron."
(2) "I'm a French and Spanish teacher, and having learned French first, it was very difficult for me to learn to roll my "r"s in Spanish. (I always tell my students that my "r"s sounded like a lame lisp when I started!) However, I did learn to roll my Rs and I'm now quite good -- so it is possible! Here's my advice: say the words "pot of tea" over and over and over again. Then, do it again, faster and faster and faster. This is the same concept of the "atta boy" analogy, but what's cool about this is that you end up saying "para ti" in Spanish. Do this ten minutes a day every day (in the car, in the shower, walking to class ... ) and your tongue will "learn" where to place itself. Once you get good, you can immediately go into the multiple "r" sound. It took me about six months of trying before I learned it -- be patient! Buena suerte."
(3)"The Spanish love to roll their 'R's - you can practice this at home before going...'brrrrrrrr! it's cold here'. Let your tongue relax and let the air do the work"