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Vexen Crabtree 2015


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Sociology, Theology, Anti-Religion and Exploration: Forcing Humanity Forwards

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Vexen Crabtree 2015

The experience theodicy

The experience theodicy: Do we need to experience evil in order to know good? By Vexen Crabtree

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Your views are convicing

Your views are convincing. However:
1)You may have felt pain and suffering as a baby,a fetus, or as far back we begin to exist, but just don't remember.
2)God may not be perfect or completely all knowing. God could be a force although I personally think it is more so.
3)God really may not admit everyone into heaven according to what we do here in this "world".
3)I'm 36. I used to always think that God may or may not exist, but there have been too many "things" happening in the last 7 years or so to chalk up to coincidence or science (actually they have probably been happening all my life, but I haven't been noticing them)
4)I am a firm believer in Science, Mathematics, and evolution. But I think that something is behind all of it, whether a "Heaven" or "Hell" exists or not.

I am a sailor. I have a friend who wanted to learn how to sail. He told me he'd read a dozen books and watched several videos on sailing.

When I finally got him on board, I asked him if it was what he thought it was going to be. He said no, he really thought it would be better than it was. He never went again.

The point is, that knowledge is never enough. It cannot replace experience. Your statement that we could have had knowledge of evil without the experience is true, but it would be shallow. One is with the head, the other the heart. Now, the question, did we need to experience evil is another matter. Well, if we want to experience the opposite,love and goodness, it's a good comparison.

god will and always exists,

1. Babies, however short their lives, even in the fetal stage, do suffer some pain and/or discomfort. If one remembers his or her own childhood, one can readily recall how painful some things that we now pass off as "nothing" seemed, so our version of pain and a baby or fetus's version would be quite different. Therefore, all babies have experienced pain prior to death. Additionally, according to the book of Revelation, all of these babies will be resurrected and live physical lives and experience physical, adult pain. They will also be exposed to evil, at the end of the milenneum reign of Christ.
One ill-considered fallacy shot all to heck.
2. Since when did any child believe that something would be bad for them when simply told so? Not many, if any. Every child has to eventually test the things that its told by its elders or all it has is hearsay, not experience. Without that experience to back up information, one will not make the correct decisions. Additionally, the level of pain and/or suffering each individual experiences is relative, so what one might consider an unbearable amount another would consider merely bad, while another would barely even notice it. The same holds with evil and its consequences; many children weigh punishments prior to committing an act that they know to be bad, not because they're confused about the goodness or evilness of the act itself, or the reality of the consequences, but because the pleasure of the evil act outweighs for them the perceived consequences. Even if people knew all about the concept of evil and had an intellectual understanding of possible consequences, without actual consequences there would be no checks and balances.
Number 2 ill-considered fallacy shot to heck.
Again, knowledge of evil is important for free-willed individuals. If one is to make a choice, one has to first have a choice! God does not want robots or puppets; if He did, He'd have stopped creation with the angels. God wants equals. In order for that to happen, we must choose Him, not be forced into the choice. No choice is no choice and unacceptable. Again, babies will be resurrected during the millennium and make their choices.
Ill-considered fallacy #3 gone.
There was this little thing called "Satan's Rebellion" in heaven. We don't know how long this lasted, but there was war. War implies suffering. Additionally, God came to earth in the form of a man, lived a perfectly sinless life and, knowing that a huge number of people would reject both Him and His sacrifice, still suffered one of the most horrible deaths known to man--who knows how to inflict some horrible forms of suffering on his fellows--and died so that you, my friend, could live.
Life is good; Eternal Life is better.
Stop rebelling against reality. The truth is that there is a God, He cares for you, He suffered and died for you. He is everywhere--hell is a "where" so obviously an omnipresent God would also be in hell, as well as in heaven. He is not asking anyone to suffer anything He has not and is not suffering Himself, but in return for simply believing in Him, He will give you eternal life.
What a bargain.
Please give your life to God, He loves you more dearly than any lover. He is the lover of your soul and wants only your best because God is Love.
Simply believe.

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