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Vexen Crabtree 2015

vexen

Vexen Crabtree's Live Journal

Sociology, Theology, Anti-Religion and Exploration: Forcing Humanity Forwards


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Vexen Crabtree 2015
vexen

Prayer

Prayer

Conclusion:

"God knows everything - everything we say in prayer, God already knows. The point of praying is definitely not to reveal things to an all-knowing God. God acts only when God knows it is good to act, the wishes of prayer can only ever be against God's will, as I have elaborated on above. So, when prayer works, how does it work? If prayer works, then it is either coincidence (you've prayed for something that was going to happen anyway) or, you knew what was best better than God did, and God intervened!. The latter is impossible. Magic, or prayers, when they are effective, must be against God's will. If you ask a Christian or a Muslim, what will they say is the magical force that acts against God's will? Satan's will. If a supernatural affect such as prayer goes against God's will, then it is Satanic. As such, prayer is either useless, or Satanic. What business, then, have theists got in praying? This is a warning to all god believers that they must be very careful of their own motives when they get together and pray for things!"

79+ comments on this also exist on a different LJ entry - click.

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Re: Prayer

(Anonymous)
I don't ask God for favors, etc. I ask that His will be done in my life and those I love. How is that selfish? You don't know what you are talking about re the Bible. I can't explain it to you because you DON'T BELIEVE. I pray that you do ... then you will have all your questions answered. It's just that simple.

[[I don't ask God for favors, etc. I ask that His will be done in my life and those I love.]]

Why wouldn't his "will be done" anyway without you asking for it? Is he omni-benevolent or isn't he?


[[How is that selfish?]]


For reason's I've already outlined. Praying to 'god' cannot be for communion (communication) because you and he already have a "hotline" if he "knows what is in your heart" and mind and is omniscient, and if he's omni-benevolent then there is nothing to ask him to do because he's going to do the ultimate good anyway, right?

So then, to pray must be to request a personal wish that IS NOT the best all-around benevolent plan for everyone. That would be "selfish" and a relative evil.

[["You don't know what you are talking about re the Bible."]]


I'm not claiming that the bible says that praying is evil. I'm taking (and so has vexen) a few attributed characteristics of biblical Yahweh, aka 'god', and applying logic to them. The extent that the consequence differs from Judeo/Christian dogma is how far the dogma strays from logic and reason. Does faith need to be reasonable? No. It doesn't, but I think it's noteworthy to point out how unreasonable it can be.


[["I can't explain it to you because you DON'T BELIEVE."]]


That sounds like Saint Paul's idea of the "regenerate mind" and that nonbelievers are "depraved".


How does belief affect objective existence? How would me possessing personal bias toward believing a point help me see the actual truth of a statement rather than a biased understanding of it?

I don't ask the two questions above as much for argumentative purposes as much as to give you something to ponder and meditate over. Would you do that for me please?

:-)



[["I pray that you do ... then you will have all your questions answered. It's just that simple."]]


Thanks for your prayers, because I understand that in theist-speak, that means you are wishing me well. However my questions ARE answered to my satisfaction.

It's just that simple.

:-)

Thanks for writing.

The Vampire
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