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Vexen Crabtree 2015

vexen

Vexen Crabtree's Live Journal

Sociology, Theology, Anti-Religion and Exploration: Forcing Humanity Forwards


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Vexen Crabtree 2015
vexen

Prayer

Prayer

Conclusion:

"God knows everything - everything we say in prayer, God already knows. The point of praying is definitely not to reveal things to an all-knowing God. God acts only when God knows it is good to act, the wishes of prayer can only ever be against God's will, as I have elaborated on above. So, when prayer works, how does it work? If prayer works, then it is either coincidence (you've prayed for something that was going to happen anyway) or, you knew what was best better than God did, and God intervened!. The latter is impossible. Magic, or prayers, when they are effective, must be against God's will. If you ask a Christian or a Muslim, what will they say is the magical force that acts against God's will? Satan's will. If a supernatural affect such as prayer goes against God's will, then it is Satanic. As such, prayer is either useless, or Satanic. What business, then, have theists got in praying? This is a warning to all god believers that they must be very careful of their own motives when they get together and pray for things!"

79+ comments on this also exist on a different LJ entry - click.

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continued...

My ideas with prayer have to do with the free will thing. You say that prayer is pointless because an all good God would allready be doing everything in his power for your benefit. True, but I disagree that God is all good. I believe that prayer may have an effect that we don't know about as well, just as evil and suffering might. Even if the effect is purely psychological you could still say that it is God who's giving the effect, because God takes credit for a geat many things that happen in this world that science can figure happened because of the laws of nature. If God created the laws of nature, then everything that happens because of them are in a way happening because of his will. Both good, and bad. All that it means when we figure out that we don't have "free will" is that our choices have causes, and are not self caused. That's all that means, that doesn't mean that every choice we make is a coerced choice...we're still making preference choices. I think the brain only catagorizes our choices as either free willed (a preference choice) or a coerced choice (like I was brainwashed, and forced to do it against my will)..and for whatever reason says that if a choice is a preference one, that it is "free willed" and has no higher cause, and if a choice we make has a higher cause then it ceases to be a preference choice, and is a coerced decision. That's not true though, because I can still choose something with my will (because I want to do it) and still be effected by punishment and reward, and that choice can be caused by the laws of science.

But my point is, just because my choices are all determined in advance, doesn't mean that I'm not making them (or in technical words, my choices are still a part of the cause and effect chain) therefore, even if God has determined wether or not I will chose to pray at the highest point in the cause and effect chain, its' still up to us because we don't know wether or not we will choose to pray, and therefore I"m still causing it to happen wether or not there is a higher cause causing me. So I can still chose to pray to God and get the benefits of praying, or I can chose not to pray to God and not get the benefits.


Sorry, for rambling on like this...these are just a few ideas I've built up after a few years of thinking about this stuff. I hope you can analyze some of it, and offer your opinions.

By the way I love your sight, it has a great deal of interesting points, and arguments to stir the brain.

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