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Vexen Crabtree 2015


Vexen Crabtree's Live Journal

Sociology, Theology, Anti-Religion and Exploration: Forcing Humanity Forwards

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The Marcionites: 2nd Century Christians


Marcionites had some great theology, and some great solution to some otherwise-unsolved problems within Christianity. It's a shame that the more sensible ones are frequently the less aggressive... as they were of course wiped out by their less compassionate Pauline Christian brethren.

Marcionites believed that the God of the Old Testament was a different God to the new testament. Their reasoning is sensible, and their collection of Christian books into a canon was the first ever collection.

"At one point, the early Christian writings that were collected by Marcion, along with his own writings, were all destroyed. A domineering early Catholic Church, the Pauline Christians, committed themselves to a long-term campaign against these early Christians. [...] If it is Christian duty to 'turn the other cheek', 'resist not evil', 'love your enemies' and 'love your neighbours as yourself', then it is clear that the Pauline Christians, who eliminated Marcionism and got to choose the books of the Bible, were not the true Christians. "

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It's been clear that the majority of Churches are not true Christians for some time. And Paul was just an arsehole.

As kensaro said once of the actual teachings of Christ, "Nice guy, shame about the fan-club."

I think there is no such thing as "true" Christians: Every form of Christianity has been a continuum from previous religious beliefs and practices and therefore, there has been no "purely" Christian church and, given that Christianity is itself a collection of older myths, it is impossible that there ever will be such a thing as "true" Christianity.

Although I know where Kensaro is coming from, all we can really say is "Nice teachings, that some people rewrote in the name of Jesus, shame the fan club"

Annnnnnyway, how you doing? Want some sand?

Agreed, the original texts, whatever they were, have been rewritten, reinterpretted, or just plain reduced-to-ashes so often over the years there's no way anyone could claim to be following the 'true' way.

That said, no modern denomination seems to be following the surviving texts, either, they have their own creeds and dogmas (in quite a few cases, based upon 'pagan' traditions that have survived the great whitewash of Christianisation) that seem to take precidence over the scriptures as written. Pretty much, they read the texts in ways that support what they've already decided is 'right'.

And extreme(ly amusing) example of this is http://www.sexinchrist.com/ - though you might not want to look at that on a work terminal. It's all text, and not all that descriptive, but I'm guessing some would find it inappropriate viewing material.

And I'm doing well, thanks! Keeping busy with the research, Yoga and rockclimbing, and trying to fit in teaching myself Dutch and the violin during my occasional free time. Spoke to Justin on MSN a couple of days ago, he seems to be busy-but-generally-good too :)

Mmmh, sand. Are you getting to see any of the historical stuff out there, or is it all army bases and patrolling?

Mostly off-topic, but I thought you might like to see this:

(I hope the video loads for you!)

It's Stephen Colbert talking with Bart Ehrman (author of "Misquoting Jesus") and basically calling agnostics "atheists without balls."

So, when you can get around to it ... what do you think?

Addendum: in case it's not clear, no matter how he portrays himself, Colbert is an admittedly devout Catholic (though it's fairly clear in this snippet). Quite frankly, he's been getting on my nerves more and more--and so is his popularity.

Vexen, long time no talk. I'm not sure what you're basing your history on, but it's inacurrate. Maybe the same book you quote from? To speak of the big "C" Catholic Church during the time of Marcion is strange, since the Catholic Church started well after Marcion died. Also, to speak of Pauline Christians in this era seems a bit out of place.

On a related note, there were clear reasons why early Christians held some texts to be canonical, others helpful writings that weren't canonical, and still others as literature that didn't fall within the pale of Christian orthodoxy. In a similar way that Satanists can say that Wiccan literature is not accurately described as Satanist, so can Christians accurately hold that some literature isn't Christian.

John Smulo

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