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Vexen Crabtree 2015


Vexen Crabtree's Live Journal

Sociology, Theology, Anti-Religion and Exploration: Forcing Humanity Forwards

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Vexen Crabtree 2015

Types of Christianity

"Types of Christianity: Who were the First Christians?" by Vexen Crabtree

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Roman Church

Most of Western Christianity (Roman Catholics/Protestants) view Eastern Christianity (Orthodox Christianity) as excommunicated from Rome in 1054, as if Rome had the power to do that. The west even teach that the schism was the begining of Orthodox Christianity. (In name yes - Orthodox (Ortho - right/Doxy - teaching - the full name being "The Greek Orthodox Catholic Church" - Catholic means universal in Greek.)

What often goes unmentioned is that the Bishop of Rome took it upon himself to excommunicate the Bishop of Constantinople - in response the council of Bishops (Constantinople, Alexandria, Jeruselem, & Antioch) in 1054 excommunicated the Roman Bishop because he did that without the mutual agreed permission of the Church.

Most writings of protestant historians still view history through the eyes of the Roman Catholic Church. The Eastern Orthodox Church has had very little change in 2000 years. I invited a Jewish woman to the service, and she could not stop commenting on how Jewish the litergy was. It is based on the Litergy of Apostle James which is still used in the Orthodox Church of Antioch. In Russian and Greek Orthodox Churches, they use the condensed version by St. Basil on special occasions and even more condensed version by John Chrysostom each Sunday. (Worship was switched to Sunday because that is the day Christ was resurected, and that is what we celebrate on Sunday.)

Overall, how many forms of christianity are there?

I recognize two types of Christianity. On being Roman (Mithra) Christianity, the other is Jewish Christianity, which is what Jesus would have been. Jewish Christians would not call themselves Christians. The word Christian coems from the Greek and Roman world. Jewish Christian sects would have included earlier followers of Jesus , such as the Ebionites, Nazarenes, Notzrim, Elcesaites (an Ebionite sub-group) and the Nazoraean. (offshoot of Nazarenes) All of these groups have there own set of writings about Jesus (or Yeshua as the Hebrew/Aramaic would call him) and did not call themselves Christians. They all share similarities with the other Essene Jews There are many branches of Roman Christianity (including but probably not limited to Protestant, Eastern Orthodox, Lutheran, Baptist, Mormon and Evangelical)

Eastern Orthodoxy is Jewish Christianity. The origins of the Eastern Orthodox are with the Temple cult of Jerusalem, while modern Judaism has its origins in the Pharisee sect of Babylonian diaspora origin. The early Jewish Christians were divided between Hellenic Jews and their Gentile converts, and Semitic-speaking Jews. The latter group had a division over inclusion of the Gentile converts by the Hellenic Jewish Christians. The group claiming exclusivity did not survive beyond the fourth century after the destruction of Jerusalem. The other (Orthodox) group continued: the Hellenic Jews becoming the 'Greek' (Roum/Rum or 'Roman') tradition of Christianity with its centers in Antioch, Alexandria, Rome and later Constantinople, and the Semitic tradition with its centers in Edessa, Seleucia-Ctesiphon, and other areas that continued with the Aramaic language. The Aramaic tongue spoken by Jewish Christians later came to be called Syriac, though the Christians of Malloula in Syria still speak Palestinian Christian Aramaic (similar to Judeo-Aramaic, spoken by Jewish people of local Palestinian origin.) While most of the Jewish Christians became intermarried with their Christian converts of Gentile origin, some groups of Jewish Christians maintained their separate identity with Eastern Orthodoxy. This is particularly true with the separated [i]parasynagogus[/i] (insubordinate to their Patriarchs) called variously 'Oriental' or 'Non-Chalcedonian' Orthodox. These relict populations are most visibly amongst the Ethiopian Orthodox, and in the Knanaya branch of the Malankara Syriac Mar Thomas Orthodox Christians of Kerala, India. Otherwise, various clans or villages in the Antiochian Orthodox, Melkite Catholic, Syriac Orthodox or Syrian Catholic traditions that remember and maintain their origins with those who followed the preaching of Jesus Christ and/or his disciples. More recently, large numbers of people of Jewish origin (roots in the Pharisee branch of old Israel, rather than the Temple branch) have become Eastern Orthodox - especially in Russia and Israel (where the latter are called the Rum Orthodox Ivri - Roman Orthodox Hebrews.)

In Western Christianity there was a memory of origins with the Jewish Christians, especially in Rome, Southern Gaul, Northern Spain, and Britain. The separation of the Western part of the Church from the East only obscured that identity, especially due to the barbarian takeover of Western Christianity and the eventual Western obsession with pre-Christian Latin and Hellenic paganism (the Enlightenment, Reformation, and Counter-Reformation.)

Thank you for your educated response, who are you?

the enlightenment of the ebionite religion

this was the true message of jesus. he was a jewish messiah who preahced th egood news abotu god. he was a man not God he was a great prophet. then the hellinistic christian came and erased them out how sickening. but how about st stephan why was he stoned by the Jews? what was the reason for that.

I also think jesus came for everyone

He came for every one but one should follow the torah I think that was what he and his brother james taught


In 3.2 you mention "All the actual sayings and teachings of Jesus were also not new, and much of the time speeches attributed to Jesus are more like collections of Jewish and Pagan sayings."

The thought that came to my mind was that all pagan beliefs were outcomes of the Adam and Eve Epoch where one can assume the teachings of God were passed on to their succeeding generations and consequently perverted.

What 'Adam and Eve epoch'?

Re: 3.2

I understand that you don't believe in it but I was simply pointing out a religious aspect for why a pagan ritual would preface the doctrine of Jesus. The bible describes Adam and Eve supposedly having children, who they like andy parent would have taught them morals and values. The teaching and traditions could only be passed on by word of mouth and formalized by routine or ritual. Any repeated conversation will be confused or imbued with misinformation and mischaracterizations. Over time everything changes but it is possible that representative elements such as creation, birth, death, and end of time would be familiar.

Possibility not yet mentioned...

No comments I've seen on the inter-net even consider the "John the Baptist" approach...The 1st Gospel, Mark, starts out with JtheB as if everyone already knows who he is...Mark introduces the 12 as rather dumb along with a few other negative reflections...The book of John is a different type (another follower of the JtheB sect) who is extremely literal and has the belief that Jeshua is the really big GOD (very paganish)...These books were not developed out of thin air by people who heard this and that by word of mouth...they were probably written by people who used various writings produced by the Jeshua sect and the JtheB groups...someone took the time to produce Mark and another group John...Mark was probably written by an Aremaic JtheB writer...Look at the Aremaic word "Gamla"...it has two meanings depending by the way it is used in speech..."camel or rope"...obviously, the translater wasn't very fluent in Aremaic..."a rope through the eye of a needle" is thr logical understanding in this quote...Russ Bonis

Your information is helpful and educating, however, I notice that you completely do not mention the Apostolic Church. Armenia adopted the Apostolic Christianity 301, becoming the first nation to adopt Christianity as its official religion. I hope I merely overlooked it and you did include it, however I did not see any mention of the Apostolic denomination anywhere in the history you mentioned.

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