Vexen Crabtree 2015

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Vexen Crabtree's Live Journal

Sociology, Theology, Anti-Religion and Exploration: Forcing Humanity Forwards


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Vexen Crabtree 2015
vexen

'America -< Europe -> Middle East

Poll #797914 America -< Europe -> Middle East

Can USA liberal Churches such as the Epispocal Church USA, challenge the powerful rise of fundamentalist born-agains and evangelicals?

Yes - I hope so
4(23.5%)
Yes - I fear so
1(5.9%)
No - but I wish they could
7(41.2%)
No - which is fine
2(11.8%)
Could who do what to whom? Huh?
3(17.6%)

Can the Islamist nations come out of their dark ages?

Yes, if we leave them alone
5(29.4%)
Yes, if we continue to interfere
2(11.8%)
No
3(17.6%)
No, and we must interfere to stop them waging war against us
5(29.4%)
Dark ages? What dark ages? Again?
2(11.8%)

What can we do to conter religious extremism in the USA and Middle East?


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Slightly unrelated, but check out NoBoJo: http://www.nobojo.org/

Argh, a whole uni? *shudders*

Some of their quotes on that site are exactly the same as ones I've used... like the "four directions" quote on their page on the dodgy nature of the formation of the Bible.

No, that site is making FUN of them!

Yeah I get that, sorry about the confusing reply, the site made me realize that Bob Jones has a University.

Yes, that is sad.... sick.... scary.

Would you post your policy please? I'm interested because I frequently get branded a Nazi for my approach too...

Screen it if you like so only I can see.

I don't think he can screen his own comment on my LJ... I think only I would be able to see it, and not you... you might have to comment on his own journal for that to work.

In either case, if you two talk could you involve me, vexen@vexen.co.uk ?

http://www.vexen.co.uk/military/western_defence.html (I haven't promoted it here, yet) and http://www.vexen.co.uk/life/population.html seem relevant (you might have seen that second one).

Of course, if we talk, I'll involve you. First though, I'll look over the preparatory reading you've linked!

I agree with a great deal of what you say in the http://www.vexen.co.uk/military/western_defence.html article, though (as always it seems) I can uncomfortable with your tendancy to be so European-insular.

Over the last few decades it is obvious that there is storm developing. Communism could be (and was) defeated, falling apart under its own contradictions and inadequacies (cleverly managed and exploited by Reagan). But Islam is a whole different matter - a philosophy and system utterly anarchoronistic in the 21st century, and utterly determined to impose its will on the whole Planet. It is, sadly, us or them. Or I would go further than that. It is the Rest of the Planet vs Islam.

Of course, will we wake up and realise that?, or will Western society continue to slumber in a "maybe they'll go away if we keep blame ourselves " mindset...

I've recently been thinking that the USA/Israel are trying to provoke a larger-scale war... I've even wondered about attempts at a large-scale depopulation-through-war-and-refugees policy. But the mass of Islam is spread too wide, across too many countries... from Indonesia right the way up to Europe. There are so few 'moderates' with any voice, that the present (public) policies of European countries are next-to-useless... Islam is inherently fundamentalist, expansionist... well, I could go on.

But I think there is hope... I think that deep inside many Muslim countries is an agnostic, irreligious kernel of hope... for example, nearly all the Afghans I've worked with here have been basically non-religious in all but the most traditional Arab habits (shaving, for example). They don't oppose... or support... Islam in any political or meaningful sense... but their innocence/ignorance is also a trait that means they'are also apolitical.

Now, obviously, my sample is biased as none of the religious/Islamist Arabs come near NATO camps, so I only get to see the placid ones anyway. Tangent.

My answer - for Europe/USA at least - is to encourage the religious to identify themselves.

For example, if you look in Yellow Pages you'll see some business ads have a small stylised fish somewhere on them. Christians! Similarly, in the nearest city to me many of the fast-food outlets have indications of Halal-status [sometimes they actually say 'Halal' on their signs in English; othertimes it's in arabic]. This says one thing to me: Moslems!

In the past I've successfully diverted groups of friends away from such places by commenting that "they serve halal food there - and I'm opposed to halal slaughter-methods; can we go eat somewhere else?" Similarly, I've diverted at least two car-buyers to dealerships other than 'Reg Vardy' after pointing out that the Vardy company founded and funds "The Vardy Foundation" - an evangelical organisation which promotes creationism in schools.

If we can get the hardline theists to identify themselves [through things like the fish-symbol or Halal] then us antitheists can explain to our friends what these symbols mean and that it might be worth boycotting such businesses/establishments/people.

Economic pressure is effective!

Of course the religionists will inevitably extrapolate this idea into the "jewish businesses must be identified" and "yellow stars" thing and I'll end up being called a Nazi.

Nice policy, I hadn't thought of that. Boycotting theism. And in your defence, re the "jewish question" (deliberate choice of words), I would offer this. Even today, 60+ years since the war, it's not uncommon for Jews to boycott German brands like Volkswagen etc because of their relation to the War - several generations back. If that's acceptable then boycotting Jemish enterprise simply because it's a stripe of theism is even more so. Afterall, the theism is still hot and current, where as the Nazi generations is dead and buried.

The Bush/Blair axis-of-god-botherers and their acolytes are always talking-up 'faith-based' initiatives.

As someone of a fundamentally anarcho-capitalist bent and an antitheist to boot, I'm quite happy with promoting the idea of "reason- and market-based" initiatives to undermine the power of religion by using our spending-power.

Marketing-types have for a decade or so talked of the 'pink pound' to reflect the influence of gays in the marketplace: if businesses are taking account of gay purchasing-power in their strategies, by highlighting companies and businesses with behind-the-scenes religious connections we can exert considerable pressure.

Identify businesses whose operators are christian or islamic.

Push them into making statements about their policies.

Fiscally-quarantine those who fail to make the grade.

Because the christian exstream shouts loudest and drowns out the moderate christian message and because extream messages will allways be more exciting to a media obsessed with excitment, moderate would be Christians will be driven away from christianity as a whole, fearing the extream is what christianity as all about. thus strenghtening the Christian extream.

A shame because the one group who if powerful enough could put a breal on the religous right as opposed to just getting in to a destructive and eternal head butting contest is moderate Chistians.

Ever wonder if Satan invented god just to screw us up?

Yeah www.godspuzzlesolved.com doesn't it's damn well solved. But it's a good enough debate...He's a non-denominational Christian. Very interesting books.... The problem with our churches you've already cleverly covered. Thanks!

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