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Vexen Crabtree 2015


Vexen Crabtree's Live Journal

Sociology, Theology, Anti-Religion and Exploration: Forcing Humanity Forwards

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Vexen Crabtree 2015

1 Chronicles 21:1-2 and 2 Samuel 24:1-2

Added the following text on 1 Chronicles 21:1-2 and 2 Samuel 24:1-2 to "The Biblical Christian God is Evil":

As various authors copied copies of the Hebrew Scriptures, changes accumulated in the stories. Sometimes, the same story appears twice. There are even two accounts of the Creation that contradict each other in the details. One such doubled story shows us clearly that the Old Testament God is evil, and Satan itself is not a separate being, but is actually part of God, a face of God. There is one occasion when David took a census of his men in order to count how many could fight in the armies of Israel. 1 Chronicles 21:2 and 2 Samuel 24:2 both contain a copy of the exact same text:

So David said to Joab and the commanders of the troops, "Go and count the Israelites from Beersheba to Dan. Then report back to me so that I may know how many there are." [1 Chronicles 21:2] So the king said to Joab and the army commanders with him, "Go throughout the tribes of Israel from Dan to Beersheba and enroll the fighting men, so that I may know how many there are." [2 Samuel 24:2]

What had happened is that God had a rule: That David was not allowed to 'number' Israel. But, for some reason, David went ahead and done so. As a result, God punished them all for breaking his rule. But, it is very telling when we examine the preceding verse: Who inspired David to count Israel's fighting men?

Satan rose up against Israel and incited David to take a census of Israel [1 Chronicles 21:1]The anger of the LORD burned against Israel, and he incited David against them, saying, "Go and take a census of Israel and Judah."[2 Samuel 24:1]

In one copy of the story, we are told Satan told David to do so. In the other, it was God. How can this be? It is because in the Old Testament, Satan and God are the same being. Satan in the old testament is merely the face that God puts on when it is testing it's people. "The anger of the Lord" is Satan. It was common in old religions (Hinduism, Roman religions, etc) for gods to have multiple faces, each associated with different emotions. In the Christian Bible, Satan is God. It is not just the Old Testament that contains such revealing truths, the New Testament tells the same story, God is Evil.

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I totally agree with your point but the comparison of those texts in my opinion should have had references to the text in hebrew, as you have pointed out they have been copied and translated and then translated again. My personal interpretation from the hebrew version of Samuel in the Torah and Chronicles in the Writings is almost the same and surely in one places that ס ט נ א = הוָה, לַחֲרוֹת (anger of god = satan)...
Just read the entire essay, very good one as usual Mr Crabtree...

Thanks! There are other versus where Satan is called to do God's bidding and where Satan asks permission (and is then told to) test others... but I don't actually like spending too much time on the Bible, when there's so much wonderful good stuff, positive stuff and science in the world, to learn!

I didn't know you knew Hebrew stuff (much more than I do, I think)!

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Yeah I know, it's been on the horizon for a few years. The Anglican Communion is being divided on the liberal / conservative divide. Some Anglican churches are now more like Catholic, some are being taken over by rich evangelicals, and some are aligning themselves with Nigerian fundamentalist intolerance. The Anglican Communion will split.

It is a shame, because the liberal wings are suffering financially, whereas the conservative, evangelical and fundamentalist wings are making lots of money, in part from the developing world (which is now where most Anglicans are).

I got a webpage about it: "Fundamentalism is growing within Church of England and liberal Christian churches, and will become dominant", part 3, "Evangelical Anglicans have the Church of England by its financial balls".

Oh I wish I had anything worthwhile to talk about, I used to really love astrobiology but I never had any decent sources. My pages on "Alien Life and Life on Other Planets" is woefully uninformed and amateur... I really do wish I had the time to go back to stuff like that! Maybe I should dedicate those pages to Carl Sagan though?


Why do you dedicate your life to "disproving" God/Jesus when you don't believe in them??? If you don't believe in God, just keep your thoughts to yourself. Anyway, you will NEVER disprove God. Just give up now. :>

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