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Vexen Crabtree 2015


Vexen Crabtree's Live Journal

Sociology, Theology, Anti-Religion and Exploration: Forcing Humanity Forwards

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Vexen Crabtree 2015

Foreign workers statistics [edited]

  • 400 000 jobs (of 2.7 million new jobs) have been lost to foreigners instead of Brits since 1997. That is more like 15% than the 80% cited in some papers.

    There is a lot of ridiculous hype in the newspapers about the numbers of foreigners taking up jobs in the UK. The Guardian presents some of the figures: In short (subtracting already the number of UK nationals born abroad who work back in the UK):
    • Since 1997, 65% of new jobs in the UK for under-65s, have gone to foreign nationals.
    Some papers state 80%, but, that figure includes UK nationals who were born abroad, but who now work back here. For example: British children of UK citizens who live and work in Europe who grow up and return to the UK to live and work. The real number of 'foreigners' taking up new jobs is 65%: more than half.

    There is something else that needs to be taken into account: The large numbers of British citizens who have taken jobs abroad since 1997 should be subtracted from the number of foreigners taking jobs here over the same period, giving us net data. In total, 6 million Brits live or work abroad (10% of us), and the number of British emigrants is increasing (it doubled from 2001, to 107000 people leaving in 2006).

    The Guardian says 1.1 million new workers are foreign nationals. Some quick calculations (assuming that every year up to 2006 we have taken progressively less jobs abroad) reveals we could have taken 732 000 jobs abroad since 1997, meaning the net number is 400 000 jobs 'lost' to foreigners.

    Yet it is not simply a case of foreigners 'taking' jobs because the economy is more complicated than that. Many jobs are created because of immigration and because of increased economic strength due to immigration. Those countries that have opened their borders fullest to new members of the EU (Britain, Sweden and Eire) have benefited overall, and the government says that such foreigners and their families pay more in tax than they receive in aid.


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    If I'm right it's down to the restaurant boom at the minute and the need for cheaper food supplies. End result is the wages are shite. Which is why the immigrants get it as they don't mind being 27 to a room in their living conditions.

    Supply and demand bebbeh.

    It's not the cheap end that accounts for all the immigrants, for example, over a half of all our NHS doctors and nurses qualified abroad. That's a very well-paid bracket and a far fly from the cheap-labout scenario that the newspapers tend to report on.

    Erm, NHS wages are awful in todays climate. That's why we have to use so many immigrants. It's common for doctors to be doing work above their grade as the NHS simply cannot afford to get the right staff in. Personally I like the NHS, but they are in a very tight situation and as such really get no choice.

    Yeah I think you're right about NHS wages actually

    Yet they're paying hospital "managers" obscene wages of hundreds of thousands of pounds to do bugger all (except twitch the trouser legs and wave old school ties about...) whilst nurses struggle.

    Indeed. There is a very large argument for organised corruption out there. Tony's cronies was the tip of it.

    Basically if you control the market you control the competition and any threat to your income. This is why managers often stick together, and will only turn on each other wen there is solid proof of mis-doings. It's about protecting jobs rather than getting it right.

    Unfortunately this is what happens when a govt says it's ok to lie.

    Actually, it's todays climate that has created this. Wages have not gone up ( there's a suprise ) where as the cost of living keeps going up. The end result is the poor get poorer and the need for seriously cheap labour ( so that the managers in the smaller businesses out there can afford a reasonable level of living ) means immigrants. As they do not mind being paid shite to work.

    Their work ethic is fantastic fair enough, but all it's done is allowed the current climate to simply get worse.

    Some good points, I'm pleased you've raised them!

    There are other forces shaping the disparity between rich and poor, but, sociologists have bemoaned for quite a while that even in rich countries the difference is getting bigger!

    Unfortunately it's handy to have a poor workforce. It keeps the call centers in this country for example. Also means it's much harder for companies to get caught doing naughty things. This is called the 'incentive to work'. You get nothing if you don't work ( fair enough ), and a little more if you do work. Just don't rock the boat or you won't work. It makes me think of the Chinese economic miracle in a way. And the atrocious human rights record it's been done on.

    And you wonder why kids these days don't bother. There's nothing to believe in so why bother?

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