Vexen Crabtree 2015


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Sociology, Theology, Anti-Religion and Exploration: Forcing Humanity Forwards

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Vexen Crabtree 2015

Religious Spam

I come back after 3 days away and have a higher amount of religious spam than normal.

I yearn for the day when I get my first piece of non-Christian religious spam!. I'd love to get a piece of Hindu ranting, or a mail from a Muslim ignorant enough to shove his ideas down my throat... I have no idea what it is with Christians in particular that lends itself to the mind-numbing and repetive behavior that must be involved in sending out as many emails as they do! It must be like a mantra for them... repeat it enough times until they're sure it's true!

Someone once pointed out that it might be because most of the West is Christian... but this doesn't cut it! If say (at most) 40% of the British population are Christian[1], then should logically mean that 60% of the religious spam are from non-Christians! But 100% of it is from Christians!

I get some atheists and other nicer religions (inc. pantheism, paganism, wicca, gaia religions, buddhists) actually making inquiries and asking me (mostly) why I'm a Satanist... and even some atheists. But I've yet to get an email from a non-Christian telling me that they're right and I'm wrong! There's something about this particular type of monotheism that seems to lend itself to bigotted and one-way communication.

Just wondered if (for the sake of fairness) could forward me examples of spam from non-Chrsitians! I'm just wandering if it's just as irritating or not.

[1] 40% of British population believe in a god of some description, so the value is less than 40% who are Christian.
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I suppose your website being the representation of your beliefs about satanism (hope i used the right words) lends it self to being a magnet for the groups to mail you in huge volumes.
Certianly you are probably the most outspoken, and upfront satanist i have met, (as far as i know the only one too - unless someone i knew was and did not talk much about it) and it is going to generate some mail in your direction.


Yeah, lots of popular stuff on Satanism... most Satanists are certainly not outspoken or even public. I know quite a few people who are scared of their parents finding out. I can vividly remember one Satanist who lived in the USA, his parents were fundies and they locked him in his room and a priest came to live with them when they found out he had a copy of The Satanic Bible... I was very very scared for him, but unable to help. He got kicked out and we lost contact. I have all his old emails, and it's harrowing stuff to read them. Most Satanists (except in more liberal countries like here) are very solitary. It's sadening sometimes, but personal safety is of high importance for us. I'm lucky enough not to depend on anyone for anything in the first place, I'm freer.

My point is that I don't receive spam from Muslims (Satan is a character in Islam, too, not just in Christianity).

You are right about Satanism being mostly English speaking. But I do get spam from non-English Christians, but non from non-English Muslims. Or even English speaking Muslims.

Empiress correctly points out that I do have some pages specifically on Christianity, but most my pages aren't... and after all this time I am genuinely confused as to why I don't get spam from any other religion!

I do get some intelligent Christian emails, asking for information, but I get those from other people, atheists, Buddhists, Pagans, Wiccans... my "friendly" feedback is ecclectic, but my hateful mail is (so far) exclusively Christian. It could be easy to say that they're all American Fundamentalists, but that would be a truly unfair and unfounded comment.

Anyway... oh dear, I don't like it when I get stressed at them! I should be able to just ignore them, but sometimes it's good to vent I suppose.

For the record... goth Christians are 1000% more open minded and friendly, and although many think Satanism is silly (and who can blame them!), at least they think so in a much more considered and friendly way!

I once got such spam from a Muslim (deleted long ago).

In his defence, I was hanging aroung uk.religion.islam at the time so I probably deserved it :)

Satanism is seen solely as an anti-christian religion by many Christians, maybe this has something to do with it!

I think if I wrote an anon. essay attacking Satanism, I would get a load of stupid emails from Satanists (actually I know this happens from the experience of a friend). Likewise, Satanism can be seen as anti-Christian, so I get stupid emails from Christians. I wish more Muslims emailed me so I could do some web pages that featured more Islamic-based Satanism.

I tried to write some but it came out all fake and crap because it was obvious I was struggling with all their words and phrases, and I felt I'd just look silly if anyone who knew what they were talking about read it!

They've been emailing me and arguing with me from when I first started putting my alternative lifestyle and sexuality-based essays up (my religion pages didn't come until a later date).

*giggles* I think your hostile attacks on Christianity are the culprit. Satanism is another word for "anti-christian." But isn't that obvious?

In order to get a fair representation you'd need to put up multiple sites attacking Hindus, Muslims, Wiccans, and other faiths directly, calling them names, and calling yourself an "Anti-Muslim" or "Anti-Hindu" etc. And then you would have to put those pages in languages other then English. (Since the majority of the worlds' followers of other faiths are not English speakers.)

Actually, an easier way to test your could put up equally inflammatory pages on atheism, call yourself an anti-atheist, make those sites equally as high profile using a pseudonym, and then see what kind of spam you get. Of course, I can't really imagine pages on atheism which are as inflammatory as your Satanism it's difficult to test.

I've got plenty of hideous "religious" spam from Satanists for my little essay "Why I'm not a Satanist" page (and my page isn't even inflammatory!). I can forward you my latest one.

It's all about the content, groups targeted, and language. If you don't like getting reactions/spam from particular groups, then refraining from publically and directly attacking them and their beliefs is probably your best bet.


The atheists and such that email me normally ask me questions and make enquiries... some of them conclude that it's all silly! But that's fine... but the Christians in particular I seem to attract are the ones that don't really read the essays before firing off emails.

I've been trying to find more people to debate with, but even on uk.religion.christian (my favorite and the most intellectual/non-spam Christian newsgroup I've found) I've not found anyone who keeps up a thread for long (say, 3 posts). There was once a teacher on that newsgroup who argued for a while and was clever, but kept talking about pagan stuff that I didn't know about. She denied flatly that there was a thing called "Celtic Christianity"... I was going to ask for your help on that one but didn't want to get into that discussion because I simple don't know about it all!

My Satanism pages are easily my most popular (they get about 1200 page hits per day at the moment), but the majority of it is not anti anything, although there are some pages that are specifically anti-Christian the reason for this is because it's always the Christians who send provocative emails.

The problem is though that this isn't a phenomenon that just Satanism suffers from. The Pagan and Wiccans, the gay pride movement... they're biggest complaint about religion is that the Christians wont leave them alone. Stonewall's (gay rights political lobbying group) magazine showed the biggest opposer of the gay rights movement were always the Christians... all their hate mail was from Christians.

Even on alt.islam, there was no Hindu or Buddhist spam, or even Sikhs (I wandered how Sikhs and Muslims got along, but either couldn't differentiate between the 2, or they simply don't argue much)... but there was plenty of Christian posts trying to convert people.

I used to post a lot of alt.christianity, and I *do* remember seeing posts there by other religions promoting themselves (mostly Islamic ones).

I will put up more pages particular to other monotheistic religions, but I can only do so when I know what arguments and debates they're interested in, and so far I'm still waiting on my first Muslim spammer!

Sorry for ranting by the way! And also... sorry for generalizing too. I just get annoyed sometimes.

so far I'm still waiting on my first Muslim spammer!

Try putting up webpages attacking Muslims directly in Arabic. Even then, most Muslim followers live in impoverished nations and do not have access to the internet (let alone a computer). Actually, I guarantee if you post a site aimed at Muslims specifically, even in English (call it "Anti-Muslims" or something), you'll get responses. Advertize on alt.islam and then have fun. You can try the same with any faith group anti-pagan page advertized on alt.paganism would work too.

What do you think my response would be if I wrote a much more scathing essay attacking Satanism and advertised it on alt.satanism??? Fun! Perhaps I should and we can compare notes on irritating spam.

Statistically you ought to realize that more Americans and English speaking people have access to and utilize the internet then anyone else. The overwhelming majority of internet users speak English and are from the US and other western nations and the majority of those who claim a faith group consider themselves Christians. So statistically you will get more responses from Christians then any faith group in general on the internet even if your pages were on "how to build model airplanes."

But again, Satanism relies mainly on attacking Christians...not atheists (which itself is) or any other faith group, so it will always get more attention from Christians.

Even on alt.islam, there was no Hindu or Buddhist spam, or even Sikhs

If you want to analyze religious aggression and tension, the best place to look is world events rather then the internet. (Because internet users are not a "random sampling" of people.)

In the past twelve months...

Jews and Muslims see one another as their main aggressor (Israel and
Palestine), Hindus and Muslims seen one another as their main agressors (India and
Pakistan), and certainly people of all other faiths see Muslims as dangerous
threats and aggressors (Sept. 11 and related events).

Additionally, Christians themselves have agressors of many kinds. While there may not be as many conversion tactics on the web aimed at Christians, the number
of Christians who have been killed in other countries for being a Christian in
recent months is staggering (Saudi Arabia, China, Sudan, Egypt, N. Africa, Iran, Lebanon, S. America, etc). People are being killed for their faith, not just spammed for it.

The Pagan and Wiccans, the gay pride movement... they're biggest complaint about religion is that the Christians wont leave them alone. Stonewall's (gay rights political lobbying group) magazine showed the biggest opposer of the gay rights movement were always the Christians... all their hate mail was from Christians.

Again, you have to be cognizant about statistics. Statistically those who claim to be pagans, wiccans, or in the gay pride movement are in western nations. Those nations are pre-dominantly Christian, not Jewish, Muslim, Hindu, or Buddhist, or any other religious group. If we were to transplant such folks into nations of other faiths, their "obstacles" could be much worse, and many would simply be killed. Religious freedom is not even an option in many nations.

It is the predominantly "Christian" nations that tend to tolerate religious freedom at all. So you're only going to "hear" about petty confrontation in such nations.

Additionally, it is not only nations with a religious bent that stifle religious fredeom. China, which is an atheistic nation, does not tolerate religious freedom of any kind. You can be killed for being a leader of any faith group.

Does that help clear up some of your confusion?

I do agree with all that you say... all the statistics show that my sites are most likely to get Christian spam.

But... I get emails from non-English speaking Christians just like I get support from non-English Satanists, but I don't get conversion emails from non-English Muslims, Jews, Hindus... the only non-English group to send the most ignorant emails are the Christians.

Although the stats (English, Western-orientated concepts and pages) make it obvious that this would be the case, it's still surprising that I don't get any conversion mails from any other religion than Christianity! Aside from simple conversion mails, I also get hate mail about sexuality (this is pretty much where my interactions with Christians started, arguing over sexuality, which was the first real arguments I used to get into on alt.religion.christianity).

There are (rouding up) 30 million Christians in the UK, 360 000 Hindus, 280 000 orthodox Jews, 7 million Muslims, 600,000 . Out of all of these the only anti-gay hate mail I've received has been from Christians... I've never had the Koran quoted at me with regards to Human sexuality. [Source]

In real life you would (perhaps) expect (as there are 10 times as many Christians as Hindus here) every 10th loudspeaker-preacher in Speaker's Corner and Leicester Square to be a Hindu... but they are always Christians... Christianity (in the UK and in my inbox) are the only visually aggressive religion. Although it is no doubt possible to find Muslime giving Koran's to homeless people, it is intensely rare in comparison to their numbers compared to the quantity of Christian Bibles that are handed out. Same with hotel rooms (Gideon's Bibles are still in some hotels!).

You could expect (statistically) that 1 out of 4 hotel lobbys would contain The Qu'raan rather than the Bible, but this doesn't happen... the reason why I'm bringing this up is because I was (I get like this sometimes!) a bit annoyed with the spam I get... and I saw some poor tramp being preached to by a young Christian holding out a Bible whilst in London this morning.

Oops I've just snipped the (increasingly irrelevent) stuff I was writing... my confusion isn't over why I get a disproportionate amount of Christian spam, but why I simply don't get *any* from anywhere else!

"It is the predominantly "Christian" nations that tend to tolerate religious freedom at all. So you're only going to "hear" about petty confrontation in such nations"

I think it is general Western countries that are more tolerant (although I say that with a pinch of salt, it does seem to be true... I'm the very last person to claim that the "West" is inherently better -- it isn't) of religions. But there are Western countries that are predominantly Christian and very hostile of non-Christians. Greece is one of the more extreme examples that spring to mind.

Not reading the whole thing

The a lot of Christian groups have it is for gays because in the old testerment it says Gays should be stoned to death.

The floor in this argument is that it's the same section that says Adulterers should be stoned to death. This section was famously dissed by jesus in the "Let he who is without sin through the first stone" incident. As far as I'm concerned if the adultery law was wrong then the whole section must be called in to doubt. My personal belife is that since the bible was writen by so many people and edited together in about 600 and something (That was the last Major edit It had been mostly in one peice for centuaries by then) It is quite possible that some of it was not the word of god but charismatic bigots pretending what they were saying was the will of god so people would do as they say.

The real test for any christian is to work out what is "Gods advice" and what is "A load of old coblers".

odd religious spam

hey check out our page:

there, feel better? :-)

shine on,
(yeah, from deadjournal, y'know)

A very strange thing just happened... I just got 3 pieces of annoying and wordy Islamic spam in my guestbook!

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