?

Log in

No account? Create an account
Vexen Crabtree 2015

vexen

Vexen Crabtree's Live Journal

Sociology, Theology, Anti-Religion and Exploration: Forcing Humanity Forwards


Previous Entry Share Next Entry
Vexen Crabtree 2015
vexen

Satan is the Dark Force in Nature

Vexen's essay describes Satan as the dark force in nature. Satanists do not see that nature contains a dark and light force, the dark force is nature. Nature is uncaring, part of it's natural processes is death. Satan is death, a returning to the Earth of one's own elements. Good is derived from chaos and evil and not from will or motive. Altruism is long term selfishness and the recognition of this forms the Satanists' reverence for the dark force in nature
Tags:

  • 1
hmmm...nice picture. Kinda destroys all credibility though.

Don't you believe in fun? I do!!

sure...(blinks). Those essays we're pretty entertaining though. didnt check out all the subjects, but did you ever explain why satanists, who dont believe in satan, god, ect., name their faith after a figment of christian imagination?

by your definition, it would seem that all strong minded people without the crutch of religion may fall under the catagory of satanism. am i wrong?

I know some very intelligent and strong minded people who are Christian. Also, I know some very strong minded and intelligent atheists who know nothing about religion (I live in the UK). Some of these people, when they discover Satanism, just think it is silly, and are not Satanists. Satanism isn't for everybody, many elite people are not Satanists and never will be.

A bit related to the idea that Satanists are better people:
http://www.dpjs.co.uk/elite.html

Some different types of Satanists...
http://www.dpjs.co.uk/types.html

and some different paths by which people become Satanists:
http://www.dpjs.co.uk/conversion.html

I know personally, from my perspective at least, I'm one who cant stand bullshit. And I see religion as an outlet for people who need that kind of bullshit to survive. And they're willing to pay for it. I dunno why i threw that in, im just bitter i suppose. But my point was, im a realist, and i dont consider myself an affiliate of any religion. but the "Satanic doctrine" if you will, corresponds with most of my views. Yet i dont consider myself a satanist. Why then would a "sensible" person attach such a title as "satanist" when only following the mentality of simple logic? why not call ones self a "scientist." hahaha. or a "realist." Why title ones faith from a character in a book that one doesnt believe. Archetype or not, still seems kinda silly to me.

http://www.amazon.co.uk/exec/obidos/ASIN/0380015390/vexencrabtree
is the book I base Satan on, not the Christian Bible, because I don't believe in Christianity.

http://www.dpjs.co.uk/needfordogma.html
and
http://www.dpjs.co.uk/humanism.html

talk about why otherwise sensible people might be Satanists!

Natures Wrath...

(Anonymous)
If you think nature is evil then you have made a big mistake...

1. The definition of "good" and "evil" is nothing more then a Judeo-christian aspect of peoples acts and thinking, a man that murders his wife is labled "evil" while a man that helps old ladies walk across the streets gets the "good" lable...

Why? Becouse the morale of christianity tell you that you should help those whom you love and respect, simple as that the christianity is the creator of good and evil as it exists today.

2. Nature aint a destructive force, its reshaping and transforming.
Forests burn, tornados level towns to the ground and earthquakes buries whole families in the ruins of building but this is not an act of the so called "evil" aspect.
Nature is mearly reshaping herself to more largely fit into the new world, mother nature have no sense for morale and though we humans look upon a lions play with its pray as crules its only a matter of learning.

3. Whats the difference of life and death? nothing, life is just a simple period in which a bunch of cells descides to cooperate to enhance their chanses of survival, is that evil?
No teamwork and partnership is required to survive in this perhaps harsh but in no way "evil" world...
Death is not something evil, its the end of a beautyful circle where it ones again builds up life from the light of death.

4. Darkness, whats darkness... Oh Yea, darkness is the thing that emerges when light is gone, and light my friend who walks the wrong path, light is part of life in mother natures eternal circle... no light, no life...

Please feel free to comment my comment, im available at any time...

dyingslow@passagen.se

/Selenos

Re: Natures Wrath...

1a. Good and evil have been aspects of the most ancient religious beliefs that we know, it is not best described as a Judeo-Christian concept. I don't believe in "good" and "evil", I am not a dualistic and do not believe there is a struggle between good and evil, light and dark, everything is gray, and you are right when you say that such things are just our labels.

1b. All moral systems teach similar things, Pythagoras (500BCE) and my own religion both state that you should love and care for those you respect. You concentrate on Christianity too much.

2. Everything nature creates is temporary, because nature also destroys everything. The things that are permanent (Black Holes, for examples) are frequently also symbols of destruction and darkness, where death wins. In the end, death always wins, not life. This is how nature works. Forest fires (as you mention) are destructive. It's not the "evil side" of nature doing it, nature is not comprised of "good" and "evil", because all we would do is that things we "like" are good and things that harm us or that harms things we like is "evil". Planets, suns and stars all go through destructive cycles that are much more powerful that the cycles that may sometimes allow life to blossom.

This is because there isn't "evil" and "good", just darkness, and nature is dark and uncaring, impersonal and destructive towards life. Satan represents the fact that life comes from darkness, and then is destroyed, and this is also how nature works.

3. I disagree, death is the most evil thing. Perhaps I'm merely enjoying life, but I can't think of anything more shockingly wasteful than death.

4. Darkness doesn't "emerge" when light is gone, darkness is everywhere, light is radiation. Light is part of natures cycles of life and death. The very same radiation kills, causes suns to exoplode and implode, light/energy, without that, there would be no universe. I'm just thankful to Quantum Uncertainty that we have a universe, and a life, but I recognize the fact that nature does not care to allow me to live forever, death always defeats life. Satan represents this unfortunate state of affairs.

Re: Natures Wrath...

(Anonymous)
- 2. Everything nature creates is temporary, because nature also destroys everything. The things that are permanent (Black Holes, for examples) are frequently also symbols of destruction and darkness, where death wins. In the end, death always wins, not life. This is how nature works. Forest fires (as you mention) are destructive. It's not the "evil side" of nature doing it, nature is not comprised of "good" and "evil", because all we would do is that things we "like" are good and things that harm us or that harms things we like is "evil". Planets, suns and stars all go through destructive cycles that are much more powerful that the cycles that may sometimes allow life to blossom.

This is because there isn't "evil" and "good", just darkness, and nature is dark and uncaring, impersonal and destructive towards life. Satan represents the fact that life comes from darkness, and then is destroyed, and this is also how nature works.

the universe is not temporary, it is infinite. life is energy. body is mass. mass and energy can not be created or destroyed, only transformed. when we die, we lose energy, but the laws of science state something happens here. black holes may be worm holes or portals to other dimensions, not an end necessarily. good and evil are only a dicotomy which is a by-product of the human brain. that is what the brain does, it judges.

- 3. I disagree, death is the most evil thing. Perhaps I'm merely enjoying life, but I can't think of anything more shockingly wasteful than death.

losing a child would be more painful then death. a life of shame or guilt also sometimes is more difficult then death. torture is worse then death. just because you cannot imagine something does not make it nonexistentent.


rjmasters@adelphia.net

is nature really evil?

(Anonymous)
i agree with most of the things you wrote,but there are some inconsistencies in your theory : if there is no good and evil (and there certainly isn't,because these are just our subjective perceptions fuelled by our emotional standards) then nature (and satan) can't be evil too.You may see it as evil from your point of view if s/one dies etc. but there is no universal norm that could tell us what counts as evil or good.These words exist only in our minds,nature can neither be evil,nor good.In connection with that is to say,that death is also something that we have labelled as bad,altough it is just as neutral as the world itself.Remember,everything just exists in your mind.if you think it's bad ,it will be (for you) and vice-versa,but the world around you never says it is bad or good,it just does its thing,you get what you make (and think)of it. soma

Re: is nature really evil?

(Anonymous)
Your theory is abit like Zen philosopy... the one hand clapping.
I do agree with you.

A ask B : there is a ball there, look
B say : yes, i saw it.
A tell B : it is rolling away.
B ask A : it's ball rolling or it's just you mind ?
A say : ah.... i think it is my mind.
B reply : there is no ball at all. It is just your perceptions.
A reply : oh......

Adapted from Vernace Talking
Crap with a Zen master.

Re: is nature really evil?

There is no good and evil, you are right that these are subjective, fuelled by our emotions. In addition of course they're completely homocentric... from Humans' point of view. So we call disease "evil" if it causes too much suffering, but from the diseases point of view, it is cures that are evil!

Given this, from our point of view, it is better to describe nature as evil than as good, because according to the natural way of things all things die, anything that is alive is fuelled by a Dog Eat Dog natural world, any goodness is against the grain of an uncaring universe.

Uncaring, victory of death, natural violence which outweighs stability in the Universe, and the ultimate victory of entropy and destruction, means that if we had to choose between calling nature "good" or "evil", "evil" would be more appropriate.

Good and Evil still don't exist as concepts that really deserve capitalisation, they are still subjective from our own point of view.

Satanism can give me Creativity!

(Anonymous)
I soon realise that Satanism gives me creativity in my design. I am currently a interior design student, so creativity plays a big role in my course. Satanism makes me think out of the box!

Re: Satanism can give me Creativity!

I love it when it works like that :-)

Nature is Evil?

(Anonymous)
To dear Vexen

Nature is neither evil nor good. Nature is Nature, it shall not be explain nor discuss about. When nature is being forced to be explain by human intelligent, it become fake. It is true about Nature is destructive and result ultimately death, which make human think it is bad. But Nature both destory and creates.
A life reach the end, death is near. But in the meanwhile, a new life is born, hope awakens. It is a never-ending cycle which have no starting point nor ending point. Nature destory everything to create everything. It is not a mystical force nor " a god's controller of a PS 2 or X-box". Nature is just what it is without explaination.


Vernace.

Re: Nature is Evil?

Yes, it is true that there is no absolute "good" or "evil", and it is also true that Satanism DOES describe nature as being evil purely from a human-centric point of view, from the point of view of individual life.

Paganism and Wicca are not 'light' religions. They embrace the dark as well as the light

i think that there is a dark force that contoles everything.

"Instead of suppressing that which is bad, lingering on it and twisting it, it is far better that you merely accept that you will never be a perfect person, and concentrate on doing the things that you feel are good."

From a Satanic point of view, if one wishes to take control of his or her life and make changes in accordance with his desires, would it not be better to focus on negative qualities such as laziness, naivness, impulsitivity, procrastination, lack of control over emotions, etc that may be a hindrance to ones on development? Wouldnt it be correct to focus on those and eliminate them if they are roadblocks on ones path to earthly success?

Although this whole essay does go against everything that I, personally, believe in.....It does makes sense.

And, it is sad that most people refuse to acknowledge Santanism as a valid religion. It offers explainable, and logical points and it's followers are some of the most intelligent people out there.

personally, i think your entire website is utterly crass, you seem to be jumping between logic and a sort of realism, and then you start personifying nature into some thing which is 'destructive' and 'dark'. Satanism is not a bloody religion, there is nothing religious about it, its a moronic mixture of a few half-baked philosophys and the only reason any of you pretend its a religion is cos you think 'thatan and all that dark thtuff ith kinda cooll, huhuhuh".
fucking twat o.Q

Fit for what? Science or religion? Or Pseudo-science?

(Anonymous)
This whole "Dark Force" theory has so many holes in it that I don't even know where to begin. There are however a few things that I would like to discuss.

"Entropy": Was invented as a mathematical way of describing systems. It doesn't matter what kind of systems, only that they have some elements. Entropy describes the state of a given system by using man-made terms such a 'order' or 'symmetri'. These words are not 'constants' and are completely open to interpretation. Thus they are not really valid for the kind of 'solid' statements many Dark-force texts like to use.

"Destruction". Life or death cannot be defined, as someone has previously discussed. When looking at the basics there is only matter. What happens when something is destroyed? Remember that (real)Science tells us that nothing can ever be truly destroyed, but will still exist - Even in another state (energy fx). So let us ignore the 'destruction' concept, as it simply cannot be done, and from this point on will be pure nonsense. Let us instead interpret 'destruction' as the process in wich a subject is dissolved into it's basic components (quarks fx). By 'de-constructing' a subject in this manner we are transforming a system from one state to another, and thus we are actually creating a new system. The elements of the old system will be the same, but they will be elements of the new system, and may exist in a different state. When texts claim that Satan/The Dark Force destroys - I claim he/it creates. Thus, philosofically, Destruction and Construction have no meaning either in a debate like this.

If modern Satanists want to base a religion off of science - they should do their homework. As of now this version of Satanism comes across as nothing but pseudo-science. Something only 'preached' by quacks - and only followed by ignorants.

/Ph471@ofir.dk

Ps: Oh and by they way: Black Holes aren't permanent. They actually dissipate slowly over very long periods of time.

Re: Fit for what? Science or religion? Or Pseudo-science?

Firstly, entropy as I'm discussing it is concerned with its modern (pop science) definition: mechanics & physics. Entropy is a measurable quantity; the amount of energy available to do work. The universe as a whole closed system has a value of entropy that decreases over time.

No-one knows if a black hole can dissipate ALL of it's mass, it's an area of physics where ideas change rapidly and we don't have much data. I know that black holes emit radiation (largely out of their poles), but I've also read that this only occurs whilst the black hole is actually consuming material (i.e., it's material that is shed), so they might not be "emitting" as much as deflecting in a strange way. Given their spin and properties, it is not surprising. Now even if this deflection is of the escaped halves of virtual particles (made real by the gravitation differential on each opposing particle), the black hole may not be shrinking.

But despite all that... I don't really care if black holes are permanent or not (not in this discussion, anyway).

Let's NOT ignore the "destruction" concept. I'm not talking about destroying energy into nothingness. "De" "structure" of something is destruction. So if a house changes form into a pile of bricks, the house has been destroyed, even if it is true that all it's individual quanta of energy are preserved in another configuration. Destruction has occured, so has creation. But what is the undeniable, unalterable trend is that the energy available for creation & reaction to destruction is always decreasing. Which is entropy.

The 'dark force' is natures continual tendency towards entropy, towards the death of all things, towards recycling and destruction/creation. Etc.

Importantly, it's not a scientific concept or theory, it is an experience, an outlook on the world that is emotional, aesthetic and religious. You might as well say to a clinically depressed patient "Life is good!"; the comment is simply not appropriate. Likewise saying "there is no dark force in nature" to a Satanist is largely a waste of time: In both cases, it depends on point of view, not on any measurable scientific fact.

You are so awfully wrong about Pagans.. The paganism im familiar with (which is traditional and non-newage) does not center around good, kindness or light. Not even close.

Beliveing that Nature has a "dark force called satan" is just plain naive and silly ..sorry.. my opinion

hey,its obvious that you're lost if you beleive in such a thing.....its vanity...nature being evil...ahahahah you're a lost balloon head

how the dark force see itself dark?

(Anonymous)
lol...first, one of your coleages says that Wicca and Witchcarft is alike to Satanism, then you say that we (pagans/wiccans) are white light religion?
seems that you and your kind doesn't made many studies as we do about others religions.

  • 1