Vexen Crabtree 2015


Vexen Crabtree's Live Journal

Sociology, Theology, Anti-Religion and Exploration: Forcing Humanity Forwards

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Vexen Crabtree 2015

Bloody Mundanes

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Not to be rude, but it is fairly amusing that while you outwardly despise people that hate due to perceived difference, you use much of the same tone. If a person with much the same thought processes as yourself were to appear in front of you in an Armani suit and sporting a Rolex , would you accept them as a friend or would you make fun of their "conformity"?? If one limits their social group to people like themselves, and dresses and acts much like those people, isn't this also conformity? You are only in this way conforming to a smaller group, rather than the larger whole of society. Personally, I enjoy some nice clothing, not because of the prestige it lends me in the eyes of others, but merely because it makes me feel good to wear(a cardinal rule of Satanism if I understand it correctly). If you were to even take notice of me on the street, it would probably be to scoff at how much of a conformist I am. But unless you knew my thought processes(impossible unless you happen to be psychic), you would be guilty of the same stupidity that you curse "mundanes" for. Continual awareness of self is the only way to prevent one from becoming ones own worst enemy!
As always, interesting reading.

I don't judge people by the way they look, people adopt different appearances for all kinds of reasons. My housemate Jamie, for example, (actually, all my housemates) are trendies, but they are still good people, and I get on with Jamie particularly well, I consider him to be one of the best people I know.

Meeting people on the street, I talk to anyone, happily and enthusiastically, I am a friendly and open person.

Recently, a friend and someone who is immensely respect in the scene was beaten up, at midday, at Waterloo tube station by a large well built trendy, who was hurling abuse at her and calling her ugly, a freak, etc, all the std insults trendies use, it's the second time it's happened to her. Why does this happen? Doesn't it piss you off that some trendies behave like this? Why do they? It's completely confusing to me.

I understand some people don't like other peoples' fashion tastes, and may even say so! This is fine, it's normal, acceptable, but actually judging a person based on it is wrong, how does a human being then go to be physically voilent towards a person just because of that? It's not normal, it's fucked up, I do hope that pages like mine may occasionally make people think things over a bit: That's the point of the page.

If you personally have some other advise on how I can personally dissuade people from behaving like that, let me know, I'm willing to try anything!

4300 characters?!?!?!?!

Spent hours (on and off)writing a 4800 character response to you only to find out that I'm limited to 4300... kinda feeling bummed now (so much for freedom of speech..) and really not up to editting the whole damn thing, sorry about that, I'll reply when I'm in a better mood about the whole thing ;)

Re: 4300 characters?!?!?!?!

What I do to get round that is make 2 responses, calling them Part One and Part Two.

Re: 4300 characters?!?!?!?!

Thought about that approximately 2 seconds after erasing the whole reply... life often works that way I guess

Best advice I could give

I don't think I'll be able to come up with another 1000 word reply this time, but I will say anyone with a mind open enough to read this page and the intelligence to understand it would probably not be guilty of beating up anyone based on looks. Whenever I've been confronted by the jerks of the world, my favorite policy has generally been to back down, but this may be a little easier for me as I look like someone that can break a few bones, so people are usually not prone to chase me down.

As for the wherefores of human stupidity, I have to confess I have no answers. Poor parenting can of course be blamed, due to the fact that very young children are marvelously accepting of differences and only begin to show the more "normal" prejudice after the corrupting influence of their parents have taken hold. Problem is that finger pointing is easy and counterproductive so knowing the sickness without holding the cure is of course less than useless.

While I was in HS, I was in countless fights, in my arrogance I guess, I thought I was doing some good. The fights I was often in would boil down to a smaller friend of mine was being bullied, and I would step in and take care of the bully. This continued until my Senior year when a member of the school weightlifting team pushed a friend of mine out of his way, and then backhanded him for saying something about it. I was a little way behind in the crowd, and immediately pounced on the guy, he took off running with me after him, and I eventually caught up to him at a stairwell which he had hidden under. What I saw there was a hulk of a young man balled into a corner arms over his head screaming at the top of his lungs that he didn't want to fight. I of course just stood there flabbergasted.

This, coupled with another incident that I won't go into (unfortunately it would only serve to lower, even further, peoples opinions of me) led me to a bit of introspection. I recognized the position I had put this guy in, having been put into it often enough by my own father. This guy knew how to deal with people in one of two ways, to fear or to be feared. Fortunately for myself, I was removed from the violence at a fairly young age and was able to work myself free of most of the resultant demons even by that point in my life. I drew no pleasure from having people afraid of me, and would much rather have people like me no matter who they were. I fought mostly just to make people leave me and my friends alone. I thought that since I had been given the physical strength to fight, that not utilizing it thusly would be wrong. What I neglected to put into the equation was my mind.

Best advice I could give (part 2)

The human mind is the strongest tool we own. The physically strongest person in legend (Sampson of the bible is the best example I can think of) killed thousands with the jawbone of an ass. The mentally strongest in reality (Einstein, Nobel, and the authors of the Bible are just a few) have killed millions with the products of their thoughts. The young man that I had cowed was not an intelligent person, to say he was thick would be an insult to thick people. He had been put into a life similar to mine but had not been given the tools I had been given to deal with it. As a result, he learned to survive in his world with the philosophy of fear or be feared. It is easy to blame the stupid person for not thinking, but to me it has become like blaming the paraplegic for not walking. Calling the obviously stupid person who has just said something predictably stupid to you a "fucking moron" is no better than calling the crippled person who just ran over your toes with their wheel chair a "fucking invalid". Neither is productive, and they only serve to point out the obvious to the embarassment of those afflicted persons.

The hard part for any of us to face is the FACT that whenever a confrontation turns violent, both parties involved share some degree of blame. We all like to feel justified in the actions we take, however, the truth is often that we call our misfortunes upon ourselves. If your friend did not use her mind to its utmost to AVOID a fight with a much larger person then it would be difficult to call her blameless. (Please don't be offended, I was not there and don't know all the particulars of the situation. I am basing my statement on the two articles on the preceding page in which neither of the parties did anything close to their best to avoid violence.)

In avoiding conflict, I guess what comes to my mind is the prayer that all the AA people recite ("God grant me the strength to change the things I can change....etc.) My meaning is that if you do not have the strength to exorcise the demon "Stupidity", then its probably best not to call it out by its many names (sometimes even when you do have the strength its better to save that strength for more worthwhile endeavors). The importance of humility cannot be understated. The lack thereof is why many people flare up from name calling (at least there were no she-bears present, or the whole thing could have gotten really ugly...I really hope you get this reference, cause it sounds pretty stupid out of context). Wisdom has often historically been associated with age, which to some extent is true. I have, however, met some very unwise retirees, and met what the New-Agers like to call "old souls" in some startlingly young people. The evidence of wisdom is not in the wrinkles on ones face, but in how one uses that wisdom. When you are confronted by someone who is obviously stupid, and just as obviously unwilling to become educated, when they make some stupid remark a good reply would be to say with all the sincerity you can muster "Its obvious you're having a bad day, and I really do hope things go better for you." Perhaps after considering the exchange, the person will decide that you all aren't such bad people after all, and endeavor to not be such an asshole next time. Either way, no matter what happens no one could disagree that you would have gotten the better of the exchange.

Well, it appears I've made a liar out of myself and gone well beyond my initial estimate. I hope that this helps you, or better yet, that you and your friends are never in need of it.

Re: Best advice I could give (part 2)

Sorry but you talk rubbish both parites are to blame, ? no mate only one party is to blame, the other party has just had enough of the said patry sticking it's mush where it don't belong and invading thier freedom to do as they wish within reason. That girl didabsolutely nothing to provoke this stupid fat fool who , if he doesn't like alternative people should fuck off and live somewhere else the stupid wanker because London still has quite alot of alterntive people live unless he thinks he s the one to return London to the mundanes in whih case I hope he gets a fucking good beating when he tries his rubbish on an alternative tht won'ttake his crap.

All she wanted to do was get home, thats all I resent that statement as I have seen good friends picked onas well as I have been attacked myself by these filty slime in the street for no reason other than they think they can pick on the "wierdo" and get away with it because they don't dress how they want them too.

God is the last person to rely on, that cunt problably thinks its funny, and would problably like to see alternatives burnt to death because they don't dress in sackcloth and ashes

Black Angel

dont we want the attension in the first place

ok, so not a goth, but certianly not normal, and i have to say, i thrive on the 'twat' 'freaks' and 'goths' i get shouted at me, altho why any goth wud be seen in a floor length fluffy pink coat is beyond me, but still, you have to think, i just love it when some up tight dumbass whos starin at me takes a step back when i bark at him, he was starin, i figure i give them somthin to stare at. the best thing is when u wear sumthin to school, say striped stockins, and they all shout and laugh, then go out three weeks later and buy sum of their own, so a loss of a pair of stockings, but a victory!!! the above mentioned coat was a serious bone of conention, with shouts, laughs, stares and the patented 'what a freak look' aimed at me for the best part of two months, then it gets too hot to wear the damn thing and i see mundanes wearin fluffy jackets, waste of £40 if u ask me, only got 3 months wear out of it, neway, remember, they share a single braincell between them

I call themn plebs after the Roman plebortarians or the "mob" yes I find these particular foul slime the most disgusting indeed.

Black Angel

The Mundane Scum I know that exists alll around me especially in these days of manufactured bubblegum pop

I lost my sweet baby Hans-Christa Mattern ,s he was 48 and older than me but she still became an adpoted child of mine despite me being 13 years younger than her. We were both electronic musicians and I use to worry abouther going out as little baby like to wear her sunglasses and her Doc Matern shoes winter or summer , she was lovely but shelived in Kings Cross , not saying she didin't have her faults she could be very rough and I didn't always really want to be around her , but she s the only human being that ever old me she wanted to be my child, my "son" what a funny baby. I use to worry about her all the time with all the stupid druggy idoit mundanes and once these stinking trendy rubbish actally pulled of her glasses and threw them onto the pavement I was coming out to hit him (just because I am an alternative doesn't mean I am going to stand for that ) but she shut the door so I wouldn't come out

One day when I get some oney I will put a web page up with her music on , she was from Kassel Germany and she moved to Berlin so she was very electronic , hopefully people will check out her music

I saw the cruel way she suffered through alcholoisim for a year she was in pain, then on Jan1 4th 2002 she died, the last thing she said to me was she would see me later her vioce sounded liqufied, I remember seeing her body at the hospital, the pain is still there from 2 years ago. If this so called loving God was as perfect as he makes himself out to be why did she have to have so much pain in her last year of life? surely if he "loves" his children as he says he does this sadistic bastard wouldn't havemade her suffer so.

Yet,to look to this creature for small mercies yeah it dosen't know the maning of the word as a black guy I am supposed to be rap hip hop lovng jerk but I am not this way I was into electronic music way back in 1979. I dress up pretty wiored a few years later at the middle to tail-end partof the Futurist /Goth scene of the 80's and was subsequently persected for it , I still get it today from varoius mundane scum as I have ended up in a place I hate, Milton Keynes I have a house but now I live next door to some mundane dumb ,stupid rap bitch who has somehow heard rumours about me being queer( bloody hell I wasn't and yes when I was 25, after years of lonelyliness only then did I experiment , even now I would want a girl more than a boy even though sometimes I crossdress ( although I have very rarely being out in public then again mostly at night).

Stupid mundanes of this variety although very rarely think they can look at me and mouth curses at me as one stupid black woman did , the guy was Ok but Miss PMT obvoiusly had to show her "dissaproval" (as if I have to accept this donkey mundanes scum of approval or dissaproval from her) I don't go out to clubs inthe King Breeder of pleb mundane towns Milton Keynes but not all mundane/plebs are normal looking people, some of them are so-called Gothic elitist, I have seen them talking to some of the normal mundane rats while looking down on my former "associates" and me.

Anyway to cut a long story short the "associte" who considered himslef a friend but was nothing but a backstabbing , miserable stupid mundane in black clothing decided to take it upon himslef to spread rumours about me behind my back that I was gay, yes something you wouldn't expect a so called "Goth" to do unless I went alng with it but I didn't hence, plus there is still a certain element of this "Milton Keynes Contingent" that I was warned about when I was young that love perpetuating these rumours, especially now since Acid House in 1987 cleared out a lot of that scene years ago, these filthly rubbish have kept up these rumours , posibly because they see me as some sort of lower order.

Anyway I am afraid it doesn't matter if you are black ,white or Indian, if you look alternative, sooner or later th stinking mundanes will to give you trouble

Black Angel

Also I did't start to hate and despise these people untill I heard that some filthy mundane had stabbed a girl because she had spikey hair , after that Ijust thought"what j, just for that? just because you don't like the way someone looks you stab them and a girl at that? you stab a girl? What an animal!"

Yes I felt sorry for that poor girl who was roughed up by that stinking pig , fat wanker, I hope he gets his fat cut out of him. I know , I have had lots of fights and eventually got beaten up because I was a "wierdo"( The Offical version was because I gae this arsehole adirty look but this fucking wanker use to go around beating peolewho was different to him up , ratfucker, I was justthe latest one and I didn't have the martial arts skilss to smash his head into the Central Milton Keynes conrete where it belongs) but I was for quite alot of those slimy pig pleb wankers the "wierdo" that hit back(why should Ibe hit because you don't like what I wear? you can't have it both ways plebecite scum you can't attack people and expect love oin return, we are not two faced christians I am afriad it is a case of what you give you will RIECEVE)

this is a good site i stumbled apon, i have to point out in every group of people there is an element of what we disslike, for our own veiws are only our veiws so none are solid hence NOBODY is right,lol!.....right il try explain what is my personal veiw on this one, trendies mundanes....labels , is it not equal we (who are *alternative*) stop calling them townies ect?

but then i also have THIS side to the weve all had abuse but i havnt actually been beaten up yet.....two "mundanes" stopped me in the street and asked me if i can get them an ounce of skunk to which i replied "no, i dont even know you" then i continued to walk and then got my lip split by one, but i will fight back im not a total pacafist, it ended up, just ending, damn weird
then there was the funny time when me and lyndsy (now known as darcey heston) my little gay mate she's a fkking gem, love her to bits,,, were walking out of ozzfest....01 i think in milton keynes, anyway a bunch of "norms" was walking towards us on the other side of the road chanting "freak" "marilyn manson" ect.......(i personally take it as a compliment too) and ........we got closer there was only about 10 of them, then they noticed we had chains and general garb.....LOL one actually said "shh they have chains" i nearly PISSED myself-------- i think ive gone on a weee tangent but, that was what it made me think to say, note im annon but, i may return il bookmark this page in case somone actually replies!

lol funny, but you see your lucky, in my area its total hostility... the whol ething s is unfair and injust, althou it foes test a strength of commitment to beliefs etc and over all it does build you as a better person, but contrary to this, i know numerous ppl who have been attacked based on their looks and it has this effect where a lot of my friends are too afraid to go out, consequently i cant go to slimes or hwat have you, nor wear my fav naughty dresses.
'Norms' and 'mundanes' are imposing this... awful restriction on certain lifestyles and if we're realistic theres nothign much we can do about it....


Hey Vexen, Some people who have read your essay tell me that Mundanes and Townies are the same, is this true?

Popular usage of terms like these change very quickly.

Also, it doesn't really matter, who cares if some people use "townie" and "mundane" to describe the same people, or if some people would describe one person as a "townie" but not as a "mundane".

I personally would say that a townie is a type of mundane. But not all mundanes are townies. So, for example, I wouldn't describe an ignorant, geek who never goes out as a "townie", merely as a geeky mundane.

The problem is that you are saying people should not judge you by the way you look, & yet you are judging all people who do not look like you.

You are saying that because one 'Mundane' acted in this way towards you & yours, therefore all 'Mundanes' must be equally assumed to be of the same ilk.

That is just as reprehensible as saying that all Irish people are stupid, or all black people are drug dealers & criminals, or all gay men are predatory rapists who want to chase straight men into pub toilets and "make them gay"...

Those statements are all outrageous falsehoods perpetuated by ignorance & so is your assumption that all 'Mundanes' are brain dead, violent bigots who want to attack you.

My belief is that everyone should be judged individually based on how they personally behave in this world, I do not believe that the way people will behave can be assumed by an assessment of what they look like, where they come from, what clothes they choose to wear or even who they choose to associate with.

To put it simply (& bluntly) I believe that every person on this planet is either a good person, or they are an asshole & that you will find both types within every grouping of people you encounter, without exception.

This being the case, you cannot judge anyone by the way they look....only by how they, the individual, behave. If they are an asshole, then by all means proclaim them to be an asshole - but just be sure to say "that person is an asshole" - not "that person is an asshole therefore all people who look like that person must also be assholes" .....

Take care,

...the insomnianiac

Everyone is an asshole sometimes (or much of the time), and everyone is a good person sometimes and in some circumstances. Also, as you say, all groups of Humans (and any other animal) will no doubt contain those who socialize nicely and those who are abrasive. All of that is common sense, I hope!


I think its funny how intelegent you are, Vexen, but still you rant about in a Jhonen Vasqez manor like a bigoted goth. Not to oppose offense, but I think that all goths have to wrong idea, some more than others, that they think that everyone is out to get them. To truely move about in the system is actually to go with the flow. Whining and bitching about the inevitable is sort of pathetic. You expect people to talk about you when you wear such clothes, though you act surprised when they haze you.
I'm not saying I have anything against goths. I just think that goths should dress how they want to or whatever KNOWING the consequesces. Its like trying to dress in summer clothes on a ski slope and whining about frostbite. Anyway, goths can sometimes be cool, but I have to tell you, Vexen; I think that you are very intelegent, but your idea of satanism, I think is just because it is part of the circles you revolve around. You tend to have a good way of shining light on untouched philosophies, but I think that you sort of believe in it because you WANT and NEED to believe in it. Anyway, I respect you and everyone makes mistakes. E-mail me. Everyone else I talk to about this says I'm crazy. Though, you could predict that


im not a trendy but the way u go on about they are sheep, they dress the same is just stupid. Goths dress the same, townies dress the same, greeboos dress the same there’s loads of groups and they all dress the same. i would class myself as an urban apearial (not bling rap)/ student/ musician/ designer and i am part of a smaller group then most, a group that could not give two fucks about groups and i just see cunt or non-cunt, stop looking at groups and see individuals, everyone belongs to a group.

pass on by

As a half-furry punk rocker, I find people are always gonna have something negative to say about what you wear or what you do. I find you can parry these remarks with a simple "fuck you", or a "who cares?", and keep about your business with little or no upset.
You think I give a shit about what They say? They just want everyone to feel as miserable as they do. I'm perfectly content to blow kisses at the crusty, cheap old men who glower at me from behind the windsheilds of thier enormous luxury cars.


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