Log in

No account? Create an account
Vexen Crabtree 2015


Vexen Crabtree's Live Journal

Sociology, Theology, Anti-Religion and Exploration: Forcing Humanity Forwards

Previous Entry Share Next Entry
Vexen Crabtree 2015


Homosexuality: On animal and human gay behaviour, religion and homosexuality and some homosexual sociology

  • 1

on the story.

This is terrible!I cant belive someone would say that.

Nice Vexen, read the whole thing, thanks for the information. I was wondering if I could throw some of that information up on another chat forum? A spirtual forum where I am trying to get people to take a stand and repeal a constitutional amendment here in America, specifically Oregon, one that prohibits same-sex unions or marriage...
I am on a lone crusade here.. not many Americans are happy with what I am saying...

On Satanism... I am one of those guys that exist on the fringe of the gay culture... only passing into it, to aquire desirable partners... free of their fashion and judgement as well as being free from Christian Conservative judgement... I walk my own walk... Satanism has taught me a lot... and I have spent time and effort with gay people and new age people, to broaden their perspective on Satanism...

Although I may not do it justice, I do try..

Tejun www.passionoftheantichrist.com

Apologies for never replying to your request: Of course you can use information that I provide; the greater people who come to a more reasonable stance, the better for everyone.


That was complete bullshit. Animals do not have rational thought. If you can't see that penis goes to vagina you're a fool. Homosexuality among people is a choice, period. Animals don't know any better.

Re: Homosexuality

Hmmm, um... some animlas have rational thought.
Variuos animals{including the human animal} have different levels of intelligence,sentience, and trial and error/rational thinking thought processes. This is a fact of nature.
And homosexuality activity has indeed been observed amongst some lower animal species, not just amongst humans.
That fact, and the fact that homosexuality does NOT harm anyone, shows that any fear or hatred of it and/or those whom are such-is pure ignorance and/or bigotry.

Penis does go into vagina, it also fits well into other orifices, and the toungue fits well into other orifices.
I mean, hello, the lips were created for kissing and if you look at things purely from a simplistic and ignorant mindframe- the faces of the two peopple line up ,therefore it could be concluded that necking and kissing and licking below the face/mouth is immoral, but we know it brings pleaure and happiness and no harm to do so. In fact it's funny because oral sex{whether amongst heteros or homosexuals} is actually less risky/harmful than traditional penis/vagina sex{so going on what's leats safe, we could conclude that this fact makes penis in vagina sex immoral or bad in some way}.

Homosexuality amongst humans CAN be a "choice", and is indeed in many cases{not that this makes it bad or immoral or even harmful in and of itself just because of "choice"}, in other cases there is strong evidence that SOME people are indeed born homosexual, just as some people are born w/out a clearly definable gender-or even as 50/50 hermaphrodite/inter-sexed individuals; and the fact that many people "seemingly'{at first glance} of one particular gender have more chemicals of the opposite gender to their own or even possibly indefinable sex organs{if not outright the opposite of the rest of their physical appearance}, sayd thigs are'nt as simple as bigoted,ignorant, and prejudiced people such as yourself assume.

THINK! Educate yourself.

In Reason:
Bill Baker

Re: Homosexuality




Re: Homosexuality

Some say the first of your three quotes is something to do with homosexuality, but: If a person is gay, and lies with a woman purely platonically, then for that person they shouldn't lie with women as with men. If a person is straight, it means don't sleep with the same sex. The quote you've provided actually says: Don't sleep with you don't naturally sleep with. Gays naturally sleep with only the same sex; so they don't lay with a man as they would a woman.

Even if most the people reading this website were Christian, the other two quotes are still irrelevant and the rules of Leviticus are largely ignored by Christians. Why do you think THAT Leviticus rule should be kept when all the rest are ignored? What's your agenda?

Re: Homosexuality

What you say is intersting but unlike homosexuality, heterosexual sex has the added facet of reproduction. You don't mention reproduction in your comparisons.

Contrary to what you believe there is absolutely NO strong evidence to say homosexuality is genetic. I have another message on this board with some info on these pseudoscientific studies which appear in the media.

Most of the studies claiming to link gayness with genetics are done by male homosexuals and are only about male homosexuals. There are hardly any attempts to invstigate genetic lesbianism. Is there something about the male psyche that means they cannot accept that they may be responsible for their behaviour at some level? Do they have to make wildly innacurate cllaims about their origins to try to make themselves look good to the public? This could also be why a lot of lesbians would consider that they may actually be bisexual but most gay men say that they are definitely gay?

With regard to the claim that some people are intersexed, this is only a phenotypic issue. The sex can be determined genetically.

The way genetics works is that anyone with a Y chromosome is male. XY is the normal male. XXY is Klinefelter's syndrome where the man is infertile(amongst other distinct features) but he is still male. XYY is associated with mental problems and aggression. Just a Y on it's own is non-viable(the Y chromosome can only work in presence of an X chromosome).

Females have only X chromosomes: XX is the normal female, X (only one X) is Turner's syndrome (very short, infertile female with heart probs, etc.) XXX is rare but can happen.

Think! Educate yourself.

Re: Homosexuality

the above was a reply to bill baker

hie. my name is Emma. i live in a surbub called Ilanda in Bulawayo, Zimbabwe. i am a satanist in my early twenties and i would like to say to Vexen, "you are doing a great job" . love the article on homosexuality.

'Gay animals?'

A lot of pseudoscientists have filmed/ watched animals of the same sex engaging in so called homosexual behaviour. Most of the time, this is not the case at all. The activity is not actually sexual but some kind of test to see which is the dominant male (in male situations). Also, how do you know if the animal is not BIsexual?

It is also really silly to ay animals are gay so it must be okay. Humans are very different from other animals e.g. dogs are not toilet trained/ it's natural for them to defaecate/urinate in public so is it then okay for humans to do so? Is it unfair discrimination for us to tell such people to use toilets?

This site seems to be about using logic and weeding out silly beliefs so if we think logically and scientifically about homosexuality we see that it is a useless endeavour genetically. It goes against reproduction and basic biology.

Sex between men is also one of the highest risk factors for infection and the rates of new HIV infection (in UK - don't know if you're American) are increasing in the gay male population. The amount of HIV in gay men is disproportionately large (ie look at percentages). Lesbianism is not really a health risk.

I think that instead of just making fun of religions, you should weed out nonsense, pseudoscientific views in the popular secular culture. Those relevant to this topic include those that claim that homosexuality is a genetic condition. There have been no studies that haev shown this - only random speculation. Last year (in the Times - British paper) there was an article claiming that gayness (in males) was genetic. If you actually read the article, it said that the only result foud was that gay men had a lot of brothers. NO other facts at all.
From this one random observation, they concocted a theory that pregnant women produce anti male antibodies towards the male foetus as they cannot handle maleness in their bodies.(!) The gay son is gay because he has been attacked by the most anti male antibodies. (What this should say to any sensible person reading it is that gay men have a 'destroyed' form of maleness as they were attacked in utero).

However, true to form, letters came through the next day from all sorts of poele saying that gayness is genetic (and a good number attacking religions using the article as their weapon). They even included lesbians who were nothing to do with the study or the theory.

Most claims to gayness being genetic are similar to the above.

If gayness was genetic and normal for the gay person then surely they should not produce any sperm/ ova? However you hear of several gay men who become fathers through sperm donation and alos lesbians who have babies. This makes it seem that there body is indeed heterosexual but somehow their mind is gay.


From the main article: 'Why this behaviour might be favoured by natural selection, though, is a difficult question to answer. In an attempt to do so, the exhibition picks on gay flamingos. Two males raising a chick after one of them had a one-night stand (of sorts) with a female are able to hold a larger territory than male-female partnerships. This suggests a chick with two dads could get more food and therefore have a better chance of survival.'

In your article, you try to make human gay behaviour acceptable by saying that animals do it too. This example highlights something very worrying. The male flamingo obviously had to mate with a female to acquire a child. He then goes and raises it with another male and held a large territory. This is very sexist indeed. And if I am manet to extrapolate such a thing to humans, it would be like a gay man getting a woman pregnant and then 9 months later, taking the baby off her and raising it with his boyfriend. As men earn more than women these guys will get a better house, etc than if a woman was living with them.

Quite heartless really.

Re: sexist

From Rosie (otherwise labelled as 'anonymous')

I have sent many messages because the amount of ignorance and misquoting of science is increasing everyday. People should learn to scrutinize journals and not jump to conclusions because of the title of the article. I think people are not at all open minded when it comes to homosexuality - they assume that any article agreeing with homosexuality is true.

On a more feminist note- you can put this bit in your feminist section if there is one:
I have met quite a few misogynistic gay men but noone dares to speak up about this sort of thing because they fear that they may be breaking some equality law. So instead I continue to see women giggling stupidly when gay men make misogynistic comments but getting annoyed when straight/presumed straight men do so.

Men are richer than women and gay men are generally richer than other men, therefore I think it is particularly loathsome to let gay men get away with sexism.

Re: sexist

'manet' should read 'meant'

The link I just sent goes along with the original idea of this post in which homosexuality is a natural occurence. Specifically it mentions how in humans specific areas of the brain are structured in homosexuals like that of the opposite sex. This is not material. Just though it would be interesting to add to the discussion.


Is homosexuality is a sin? The question last week was asked by one of my 17 year old female students. Without a doubt, this is an area with different views, but if you believe in God, you must be aware that God's plan of "natural" sexual relations to be between a man and a woman. In fact, according to the Bible, homosexuality is strictly forbidden and a sin. The family is a man and woman joined by God and the children born to their union. It's so simple, how and why so many educated people pretend they do not know this, is beyond my understanding. Many homosexuals say they have not chosen their condition, but were born this way making homosexual behavior natural for them. This is simply nonsense, because if something was not chosen, does not mean that it is inborn. Even if a genetic predisposition to homosexuality, this behavior remains unnatural because homosexuality is still not part of the natural design of humanity. Scientific studies show that some people are born with a hereditary predisposition to alcoholism, but no one will argue someone ought to fulfill these inborn urges by becoming an alcoholic. Alcoholism is not an acceptable way of life, any more than homosexuality. The real truth is that homosexuals choose this way of life, not because they were born this way instead because they get much greater sexual stimulation while engaging in sex with their own kind. The modern arguments in favor of homosexuality have been insufficient to overcome the evidence that homosexual behavior is against divine and natural laws of the Bible and the Church. Many gay men will claim that their desires are normal and have the right to express them however, I hardly believe two men having anal sex with each other is normal or that God would deem this his interruption of a natural sexual relationship. In the United States with the nation's largest Lutheran denomination took openly gay clergy more fully into its fold lifting the ban on August 20, 2009 as leaders of the Evangelical Lutheran Church in America voted to lift the ban which prohibited sexually active gays and lesbians serving as ministers allowing congregations to now hire homosexual clergy. I can not believe that this church or any church for that matter would condone what God condemns. I would like to remind people that the Bible specifically calls homosexual activity a sin, and the American society does not set standards for God's law! Young people should be taught family values this means teaching the truth that homosexuality is not normal, this is an unacceptable way of life, which leads to the spread of infectious diseases. Marriage defined by God between is a man and woman simple as that, and same sex marriages is destroying the institution of conventional marriage in our world redefining the most basic institution in human history.

Carlo E. DiSieno, January 2010

Shockingingly disgusting Behavior

Although its true that homosexuality has been practiced for thousands of years,through a variety of historic figures,customs,and cultures of many people around the world;one question stands out does it make it moral,if its is moral then why not bestiality?,,,,,,after all our sense of morality is what distinguishes us from the rest of the animal kingdom,although according to your research we mimic our distant relatives in the animal kingdom;so please explain to me if we're no better than our relatives crawling around or flying through the air,because also there are species in nature with greater mental and thinking capacity than humans,then we're not on the top of the food chain and we're not the most intelligent beings here on this planet with the capacity for rational and good moral judgement, according to your point of view I question why not mate with other animals if there is no difference between our behavior and theirs lets just be one big happy earth family,because your perverted research and science gone wrong,has twisted your mind to the point where we're just mammals like the rest of creation, and if that is so, then why have a sense of morality,why not have a 40 yr.old man have sexual relations with a child;after all we are animals with needs and animals do not have age limits or laws restricting statutory rape and their animal communities are just functioning quite fine!,matter of fact lets encourage bestiality practices in our society to embrace our fellow brothers and sisters of the animal kinddom our other fellow genuses! why discriminate against a woman who has fallen in love with her dog! or parakeet they have sexual needs and desires too !,,,,,,,,what you say I'm ludacris and insane,taking things out of context;had it ever occurred to you that is what you sound like to the majority not minority but majority who don't practice homosexuality and find the thought of two masculine men commiting in acts of perversion sickening and why is that thought sickening,why is it sickening,just as the thought of incest,bestiality,or sexual molestation of children,it is because of one word,,,,,,that word that separates us from them,,,,,that word that has been butchered and skewed and conformed to whatever we so desire,because if you really believe what you say,then to the man or woman that has sexual desires for a male or female animal you are discriminating,I mean if we are free to choose why not they?is it because they cannot reproduce or cannot produce adequate offspring,or is it because of diseases that could come about due to the biological-chemical bonding of our specific DNA strands that allows us only! to bond with like species,and that was designed in that PURPOSE! so if two males who possess like encoded DNA strands have an attraction then perhaps something went WRONG! wouldn't you agree, they would be ODD! like a MUTATION! so you see your research is going to dig you in a deep,deep,hole homosexuality is not normal if anything by our DNA coding its abnormal by nature,if it wasn't the percentage and numbers would speak for themselves wouldn't they,even in nature, you made seem according to sociological science that is completely natural and negatate relatively majority percentages that its not practice in most species;and if not practiced in most species;why?,,,,,,,is it because there could be an unbalance in nature or is it a fact or theory that these species are engaging in this type of behavior out of some genetic abnormality
or possibly biochemical chemical imbalance..... all animal species behavior is hetero in most aspects,

Now I know what is happening
My previous comment was removed I suppose
Are you not feeling little too much to expose your folly
I never used a filthy word or indecent language yet
you are not able to accept it?

this is known as hypocricy

You were only an 'anonymous user' at that time.

The post was useless. It was almost purely made of insults, ignorance, and correct if I misread the entire thing, but there didn't seem to be any concrete proposal, fact or idea that was worth debating. This forum is for informed debate, not a slandering match. I couldn't understand what merit there is in all that talk of orifices!

Mr. Vexen,

I used the very word because I remember I saw the word in one of the posts. It is not slandering, but in your own ideas if Homosexuality had been practiced throughout by majority of the population and among the species there wont have been any species reproduction at all and your whole evolution theory would go to no mans land. Dont you think there should be two opposite sex to bring off springs, without which how you will categorize the specfies, I believe sex is only for reproduction and not for fun. In proper union it is fun with a purpose. Leave alone animals what two human males can do better with such body structure. When bodies can not help it is only the mind, the culprit. So the duality is cruelity,
and immorality.

Great, so you personally don't like homosexuality, I get it: It doesn't change the fact that it is perfectly natural and occurs in most advanced species. You might say that sex is only for reproduction, but, that is not the whole story in the natural world, amongst animals, let alone amongst fun-loving humans. You can't leap from the fact that you don't like it, to saying that it is "immoral"!

Dr Vexen

Please correct my last sentence as
So the duality is cruelity and not repeat not immorality.

Personally I can not figure out Homo acts.

I do have a very loving family and friends around me and I do not want extra fun.

I feel it is exploring the physical body and do not gratify anything else more than that.

Something which goes against fellow beings naturality is cruelity.

Why do you want to highlight 3% variations which is out of bounds and thrust it upon 97& natural world.

  • 1