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Vexen Crabtree 2015


Vexen Crabtree's Live Journal

Sociology, Theology, Anti-Religion and Exploration: Forcing Humanity Forwards

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Vexen Crabtree 2015

If God is moral then religion is irrelevent to salvation

"Universalism: If there is a Good God, Everyone Must Go to Heaven" by Vexen Crabtree (2002)

You know good things.

God will be able to discern between those who rejected Him, who didn't have a chance to even know Him, and those who rejected a FALSE representation of Him.

We won't even be judged on what we actually do, but solely on decisions we were capable of making. An orphan who has received no love is likely to give love, and God would understand that. Therefore, doing good alone is still not an absolute measure - only God knows what is in our hearts.

Then why does God even bother allowing us to accept/reject Him? The answer is easy - eternity is important, but God also cares about our life on earth too. With His presence, our life on earth can be much more fulfilling.


i totally agree with you
the link above shows some of my points about how useless religion is in this day and age

i am a cristian and i came to this same ocnclusion after listening to a series by a pastor ready to challenge our ideas of god and religion.
here is the link if anyone is interested
but this new truth expressed in the article and the seminars has only convinced me that there is a god who works through love not through religous ceremonies.

Morality is absolute, statistical or an enforced will.

If God doesn't exist then morals are nothing more than a statistical concept or an enforced will.
If no absolute morality exists then only form of morality is that agreed to by the largest group, or enforced by the strongest power.
By this theory China and India(the largest groups), or the US (the stongest power), should be the ones to tell us what is moral or not.
No other theories of morality can exist.

"This pages argues that if people who have had no chance in their lives to learn of Jesus or Muhammed can enter heaven after they die then revealed religion is pointless and wrong. If such innocent and unfortunate people cannot enter heaven then God is immoral."

This would be a completely true statement except for one thing, you have one wrong assumption, you said "Innocent, see the problem is that you are assuming that everyone deserves to go to heaven when in fact No-one does. Consider what would happen if everyone in the world had sinned... (take a look around and if honest with yourself everyone does) this changes everything, then it is no longer a question of innocent unfortunate people, but rather just unfortunate people... this is why a moral God can send people to Hell, because it is not him just being like i am only selecting a few but rather God saying I will reveal myself to men, to save them, and hopefully they will listen to me, and spread the word through the whole world. So, yes God is moral, and yes God sends people who have never heard to hell. - JonathanPriddy@hotmail.com

Matt 7:14 says few find the way of God in this life

Matt 7:13 says the many are destroyed

Rev 20:13 is the revelation of Jesus Christ disbelieved by most 'Christian sinners' [actually an oxymoron] because they are taught by sinners, not saints or even scripture of Jesus, which states in Jesus own words that all are resurrected from death and 'hell' [hades] ... I mean, how do 'Christians' disbelieve Jesus on this , did they never read scripture ?

Rev 7:9-10 tells us that of the many destroyed in the 'wrath of God' against all sinners, countless many are LATER saved [by works at judgement day]

Ezekiel 18:19-21 tells us that all sins are forgiven as soon as one stops sinning [becomes righteous to Jesus' law of love which ALL sinners break, even those claiming to be religious] ... Ezekiel continues to explain that equally any sin by the righteous makes them a sinner again

Thus we have God's definition of a CHRISTIAN :-
2 Timothy 2:19 Nevertheless the foundation of God standeth sure, having this seal, The Lord knoweth them that are his. And, Let every one that nameth the name of Christ depart from iniquity.

No sinner is a christian then , according to God , who should know better than sinners who teach sinners who think they are 'christians' by simply saying they 'believe' without even reading scripture to find out what they need to believe to satisfy Christ and God ... that they believe in love enough to stop being unloving , stop sinning, as all sin is unloving, all sin hurts someone ...

it ain't rocket science that the god of love requires those who believe in Him to love, not sin, but religion of sinners turns that upside down with the ease of a slippery tongue :-

1 John 3:8 He that committeth sin is of the devil

It is not surprising then that religion uses scare tactics of false propaganda to get support of sinners , in fact Jesus tells us it is necessarily so Rev 13:3-10 that only the few [Matt 7:14, Jude 1:14] saints
find the way now and the rest of the whole world worships the dragon as God... since God requires to trap Satan into confessing his blasphemy [2Thess 2:4] so he can justly be killed [Ezekiel 28] and gotten out of the way whilst the few saints prepare the kingdom for the salvation of the many later [Rev 7:9-10]

Scripture is thus very logical about the power process of love being perfected in mankind PROGRESSIVELY , not all at once , as Jesus spoke of in parables ... truly judgement day is not in this life as religion pretends , no-one is judged now and very many died already having known nothing of Jesus in this life , even stillbirths of which Jesus says there will be none in the next life ...

'Sinner christians' love to talk about the 'new covenant' but fail to read that it is only with those whose fathers broke the old covenant , and none under grace teaches anyone under grace as God Himself does so [Jer 31:31-34, Heb 8-12]... just an illustration at the very heart of Christianity of the distance between religion of DIVIDED sinners says and what God and Jesus say, along with the saints and prophets as ONE ...

Religion really can't scare anyone to keep feeding churches if folks see that love of God implies ultimate salvation of all ... Jesus states that all will accept him in the end, every creature of his creation ... one has then to choose between God's saints and religion of sinners led by sinners [blind led by the blind] ... it wouldn't be that hard if folks even bothered to read their own bibles instead of listening to sinners dressed up rather tellingly as OT priests and even more bizarrely with pagan garb and keeping pagan feasts and rituals in place of holy days set by God as memorials to His written prophesied plan of redemption of all creation IN STAGES ...

How do you know? If you don't believe in God then what makes you feel like you are smart enough to say what he isn't like?

If you disagree with a particular argument I've made, please feel free to make a counter-argument.