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Vexen Crabtree 2015


Vexen Crabtree's Live Journal

Sociology, Theology, Anti-Religion and Exploration: Forcing Humanity Forwards

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Vexen Crabtree 2015

If God is moral then religion is irrelevent to salvation

"Universalism: If there is a Good God, Everyone Must Go to Heaven" by Vexen Crabtree (2002)

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It sounds like you are well intentioned and and sincere as aposed to some who use their beliefs to look down on others so when I critique your comments I am not doing it in a deliberatly antagonistic way. Even for myself a comment sounds better in the head than when it comes out of the mouth and once you hit send it's out.
first of all, "god told us in the bible that everyone would hear of Jesus Christ. And if they did not, he would judge them accordingly"? Now, I'm not sure of the passage(s) that you refer to but there is a obvious problem when you state in the same sentence that everyone will hear of jesus BUT some won't and will be judged accordingly. Come on john. Which ever MAN wrote the bible could have easily wrote "some will live and died without having heard the name of Jesus. Of, these, those who were just will not be denied the glory of God for they were righteous" or words to that effect. Either EVERYONE will hear the name of jesus or they won't. God didn't write that book. Men did. No God, even a minor one would make such a contradictory statement.
Next- "Once you've sinned ONCE, your not good enough to get into heavenbut you cant do anything that would make up for trillions of years of life in happiness."
My understanding is that, according to your bible we are BORN sinners. Now, I don't have kids yet but when I do, my kids are going to sin (make mistakes)Even though I will specifically tell them not too. I know it already, I even know what they are going to do and the lies they are going to tell to avoid getting in trouble because it is the same ones you and I told our parents unaware that our parents did the exact same thing. When they hit billy, or take susie's ball without asking I'll punish them but unlike the christian god I won't hold it against them for all eternity, leaving them to writhe in twisted anguish till the end of time. Just Parents use no more force than fits the offence and only until the child, if not completey understanding why something is wrong, that it is unacceptable and will be punished in the hopes that eventually they will refrain from doing it not out of fear of punishment but a general realization that it is wrong. Brutal parents use excessive force for the most minor of transgressions.
Four times you have suggsted that we need to accept jesus when by your own admission those who haven't heard of jesus can get salvation by deeds alone. I find that problematic. Two years ago the Governemnt of brazil, in the course of chopping down the rain forest found 2 previously undiscovered tribes of humans. According to your logic then, all the previous generations of these tribes have a chance of getting to heaven without accepting jesus but every future generation including those alive right now do not.Those current generations will quite natuarlly refuse to reject their traditions and adopt some foreign religion and in many cases will burn in hell, languish in purgatory etc(the majority of south americans refer to themselves as christians and there is little doubt in my mind the government and/or so called "missionaries" have taken steps to save the heathen's souls).

Re: God loves you part 2

This is getting long but your last point-
"Ive been a christian all my life, but its always been nothing to me, I lied, cursed, thought bad thoughts. I could never even name all the bad things I've done. About a year ago, i started looking at porn. That was the absolute low, i just felt so bad, i cant explain how i felt, but i hated it. I just ignored God. I stopped looking at porn, started agin, stopped, started, stopped, failed agin. I stopped once and for all eventually. But God forgave me of all my sins, because i know Jesus died for me. Praise the lord."
Fist of all i want to reiterate that I mean no offence and this is not a personal attack, but you have not been a christian all your life. Not one single person is born a christian or muslim (moslem) etc. You were not born with a knowledge of christ. You heard others speaking of him in childhood and asked your parents about god. They told you what they believed to be the truth.That you have come to realize that you used to do things you felt to be wrong and now refrain from is fine. But I have noticed in my travels a similar story if you will. People who tell me what an asshole (for lack of a better term) they were, drinking, swearing , beating their wife and kids, until they found jesus (or some other deity)and how they stopped. What I have noticed about this type of person is that they are much more vocal than the average religious person about how I need to accept christ or muhommed etc to save myself. The implied position that because they could not control themselves without a belief in a god and the corresponding threat of hell and promise of heaven that no one else could possibly do it. I certainly don't claim to be a saint but as the years have passed by have taken great strides in correcting the behavior you also have exhibited but I have done it without the fear of god. So, now that I have stated opinion I will ask a question. in your belief, Can a person who, though not allway succesful, generally seeks to be a good person and make amends for their previous transgressions but, has heard of yet doesn't accept christ specifcally find a place in heaven?
I would invite any one of religious convitction to reply (or you dirty heathens, infidels, gentiles)fist on your own beliefs then ask your current minister,reverend, rabbi, mullah for their opinions as they claim to be closer to god than you.

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