Vexen Crabtree 2015

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Sociology, Theology, Anti-Religion and Exploration: Forcing Humanity Forwards


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Vexen Crabtree 2015
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All Good is based on Evil

"Good is Derived from Evil: Satanic Theory" by Vexen Crabtree (2002)

For the sake of all the goodness within ourselves we must recognize and accept that we are completely selfish and carnal beings. Evil, even. When we accept this and understand how this works then the good within ourselves can become all the more greater and expressible. Without this embrace of our evil sides we are imbalanced and not capable of fully realizing our "good" potential. More worryingly without accepting our evil side we will not perceive accurately what good itself is and stray. "

Agreed! Judaism, Islam, Christianity, Hinduism, and Buddhism have all been saying this for millennia. They are all insistent about humanity's dark side as a fundamental starting point. Buddhists call it admitting that one is a "karmic being," eg, that we are limited and full of negative karma and negative karmic outcomes. The Koran describes it as sin (Koran 4:111, 6:120, 24:11). Judaism terms it human evil or having "strayed": "the heart of the sons of men is full of evil" Ecc. 9:3 and "all have gone astray" Is. 53:6. Christianity also describes it as evil and sin. Jesus said, "The world...hates me because I testify of it that its works are evil"( Jn. 7:7). Paul explains, "there is none righteous, no, not one" (Rom.3:10) and "all have sinned." Paul also refers to this as the "law of sin" (Rom. 7:23) saying, "I find then a law, that, when I would do good, evil is present with me." Evil is inescapably part of the human condition. In all the world's faiths, if one cannot accept one's own dark and evil side, one is decieving oneself and blind, unable to do "good."

Likewise, in any addiction recovery program, the first step is always to admit one has a "problem" before one can begin to fix it. One cannot ever hope to recover, grow, or change if one does not first accept the fundamental dark and evil side of oneself. In fact, no "good guy" badge can or ought ever to exist according to the world's faiths because, "there is none righteous, no, not one."

:-)

Cool. I recognize that many religions state a pretty similar thing. Calvinists call it "Total depravity". The Christians view is probably best expressed through Paul, as you quote, "there is none righteous". However the use of the word "sin" is not used within Satanism for most of the aspects of ourselves that other religions classify as "sin".

The religion that is closest to Satanism in this respect is Buddhism, although there is no concept of Karma in Satanism, Buddhism's view of ourselves as self-limited accords with Satanisms and would be the closest match for an equivalent of what "sin" is in Satanism. I think. This would also be compatible within Solipsism, where life is a journey back to the self. In Solipsism self-realisation is probably equivalent to Nirvana. Both of these are mystical extrapolations of what goes no further in Satanism than a will for a happy life.

Good/Evil (Anonymous) Expand
Good/Evil continued (Anonymous) Expand
Evil (Anonymous) Expand

Altruism

(Anonymous)
Your definition of altruism is not altruism. You define altruism as giving to others because it benefits you. That is not altruism. Altruism is giving to others because it benfits others. Altruism has nothing to do with you. By adding a you to altruism you are changing the definition and tearing apart the argument on the changed definition. There by not arguing against altruism at all,just arguing against something you made up. In essence you are arguing against egoism which is counterproductive to your point.
May God bless you and keep you always.
Jason

I don't think you understood the point of the text on altruism. I am saying that altruism is a hypocritical concept because when we do things for others we always do so for selfish reasons. Altruism is long term selfishness.

Re: Altruism (Anonymous) Expand
Re: Altruism (Anonymous) Expand

you stupid freaks

(Anonymous)
all the people that come here and think they're all cool becasue they can diss on god and make it seem ok, yeah well you suck. how can you put down the only thing that is right in life. without god where would we be. well for one thing we wouldn't be on earth since umm he made earth.

well thats all i have to say
bye


Re: you stupid freaks (Anonymous) Expand
Re: you stupid freaks (Anonymous) Expand

Love for a child?

(Anonymous)
OK, I totally agree with what you say about altruism being long-term selfishness. And anyone who is honest will also agree. Love ... yes, whyen it comes to sexual or "romantic" love ... this too is selfish.

But what about the love for a child? Particularly an unplanned child. You could say that loving a child you had planned for is selfish because you had a kid because you WANTED one. But what if you didn't want one. What if, 5 years on, you still wish you had never had one? Yet you still love that child. What if, in you deepest moments of despair ... when the absurdity of existence hits you HARD and you start to lose the will to live ... your only reason to go on is cos you know that you must give love to this child and protect it until it is old enough to look after itself? And it's not cos you WANT to go on? Is this selfishness?

Or could it be put down to something else, more primal? The basic biological need to continue the species, perhaps? After all, it is the ONE thing we know for sure that we are here for. If there is a reason for doing that, we do not know! ;)

I just don't think that "love" is always a selfish thing. But, when it's not down to selfishness, it is down to the biological imperitave to continue the species so it's still not altruistic!

Re: Love for a child?

(Anonymous)
Loving a child is perhaps the most selfish kind of all..The amazing way one feels when holding a child is wonderful.. Ok, it does become a bit unselfish when that adorable child becomes a teen, but that too passes..Believe me, after having 3 kids, 2 planned, 1 not, I do know it is selfish..There are times we do things that are unselfish, but all in all, it makes me feel warm & proud, a feeling that is definitely sought after for selfish reasons.

altruism and selfishness

(Anonymous)
So far what I have read regarding good and so-called evil has just turned my traditional notions upside down.
I still am confused about what you consider evil or if it really is.
This almost sounds like a form of Orwellian doublespeak where the words
actually mean the opposite. For example "love" means "hate" and "peace"
means "war".
Would a serial killer be considered evil in your use of the term?
He certainly can't be good or altruistic by the original definition of
the word!
Selfish? possibly. Some of them get a feeling of pleasure or gratification from commiting their acts of crime.
Just as some thieves get more pleasure from the act of stealing and getting away with it than from whatever they have stolen.
It's the challenge in committing the crime that seems to be a thrill
for some.
How about someone like Saddam Hussein,Stalin,Caligula,Ivan the terrible
and other tyrants from history?
I don't consider them altruistic in any sense of the word.
I honestly feel that there are people who can get more pleasure either
out of hurting others or their feelings in some way.
Some of us like to take out our anger on others and get some satisfaction in doing so. That is just too obvious to even state.
I sometimes fanasize about doing this myself and acting like the ultimate jerk, just as some fantasize about having an erotic encounter with the opposite sex.
Deep down I want to believe or I want to be someone who gets pleasure by humiliating others,making them look like fools by outsmarting them,rubbing things in like bad reminders,and just somehow bring a cloud over their sunshine.
I want to be the person who when he dies will make everyone breathe a sigh of relief and pleasure.
Like the death of Stalin which according to some made many Russians feel a bit of relief as though an expected hurricane never showed up.
Why would I want this? Perhaps it's ego combined with having a chip on my shoulder. Maybe I just want to be the big bad wolf who terrorizes everybody. Even villians can gain respect and admiration as well as immortality. History after all is full of them.
I would sooner be remembered as a tyrant or an asshole rather than a fool or a wimp. Now that should be the motto of a real Satanist.
That's how one should really feel especially if they have any sense
of self-respect.
Like others I do have my issues or hangups but
I admit that thinking about possible consequences in regard to my actions does a lot to encourage me to exercise some self control.
But it's still nice to fantasize and I can still be an obnoxious prick every now and then and I can always make someone feel uncomfortable.
I enjoy turning some people off more than I do turning them on.
There is a part of me that wants to be a noncomforming bastard.
Where someone else wants to act like a gentleman I want to be rude
and painfully brusque with the opposite sex.
I don't dream of being a romantic ladies man I dream of being a jerk.
Funny isn't it? I envy the Arabs and other people in the middle east in
some respects. I'm not a muslim but there are some things I like about their culture and way of life that I wish I could get away with emulating. One is their treatment of women. I would like to get away with hitting or slapping around women without being arrested especially if they deserve it. To me it is one of the few places in the world where men are really men for this very reason.
They don't have feminist lesbians telling them how to think politically correct and how they should be acting around women.
If I was white or caucasian I would be tempted to be a redneck bigot
just to be the opposite of being a politically correct geek or moron.
Well judging by what I have said so far,I think I can say without bragging in the least bit and with a straight face this much.
I think based on my own self-reflection that I'm probably more of a real satanist than some others out there and perhaps maybe more than
you are.


Re: altruism and selfishness

(Anonymous)
I feel sorry for you..You are filled with rage & dysfunctional thoughts..You are by no means a Satanist..He represents enlightenment, which you obviously could use.. A Satanist is clear-headed, honest, rational & intelligent..He/she doesn't take pleasure in others' misfortune or degradation..

altruism and selfishness

(Anonymous)
So far what I have read regarding good and so-called evil has just turned my traditional notions upside down.
I still am confused about what you consider evil or if it really is.
This almost sounds like a form of Orwellian doublespeak where the words
actually mean the opposite. For example "love" means "hate" and "peace"
means "war".
Would a serial killer be considered evil in your use of the term?
He certainly can't be good or altruistic by the original definition of
the word!
Selfish? possibly. Some of them get a feeling of pleasure or gratification from commiting their acts of crime.
Just as some thieves get more pleasure from the act of stealing and getting away with it than from whatever they have stolen.
It's the challenge in committing the crime that seems to be a thrill
for some.
How about someone like Saddam Hussein,Stalin,Caligula,Ivan the terrible
and other tyrants from history?
I don't consider them altruistic in any sense of the word.
I honestly feel that there are people who can get more pleasure either
out of hurting others or their feelings in some way.
Some of us like to take out our anger on others and get some satisfaction in doing so. That is just too obvious to even state.
I sometimes fanasize about doing this myself and acting like the ultimate jerk, just as some fantasize about having an erotic encounter with the opposite sex.
Deep down I want to believe or I want to be someone who gets pleasure by humiliating others,making them look like fools by outsmarting them,rubbing things in like bad reminders,and just somehow bring a cloud over their sunshine.
I want to be the person who when he dies will make everyone breathe a sigh of relief and pleasure.
Like the death of Stalin which according to some made many Russians feel a bit of relief as though an expected hurricane never showed up.
Why would I want this? Perhaps it's ego combined with having a chip on my shoulder. Maybe I just want to be the big bad wolf who terrorizes everybody. Even villians can gain respect and admiration as well as immortality. History after all is full of them.
I would sooner be remembered as a tyrant or an asshole rather than a fool or a wimp. Now that should be the motto of a real Satanist.
That's how one should really feel especially if they have any sense
of self-respect.
Like others I do have my issues or hangups but
I admit that thinking about possible consequences in regard to my actions does a lot to encourage me to exercise some self control.
But it's still nice to fantasize and I can still be an obnoxious prick every now and then and I can always make someone feel uncomfortable.
I enjoy turning some people off more than I do turning them on.
There is a part of me that wants to be a noncomforming bastard.
Where someone else wants to act like a gentleman I want to be rude
and painfully brusque with the opposite sex.
I don't dream of being a romantic ladies man I dream of being a jerk.
Funny isn't it? I envy the Arabs and other people in the middle east in
some respects. I'm not a muslim but there are some things I like about their culture and way of life that I wish I could get away with emulating. One is their treatment of women. I would like to get away with hitting or slapping around women without being arrested especially if they deserve it. To me it is one of the few places in the world where men are really men for this very reason.
They don't have feminist lesbians telling them how to think politically correct and how they should be acting around women.
If I was white or caucasian I would be tempted to be a redneck bigot
just to be the opposite of being a politically correct geek or moron.
Well judging by what I have said so far,I think I can say without bragging in the least bit and with a straight face this much.
I think based on my own self-reflection that I'm probably more of a real satanist than some others out there and perhaps maybe more than
you are.

Yours Truely
Howard Lee

altruism and selfishness

(Anonymous)
So far what I have read regarding good and so-called evil has just turned my traditional notions upside down.
I still am confused about what you consider evil or if it really is.
This almost sounds like a form of Orwellian doublespeak where the words
actually mean the opposite. For example "love" means "hate" and "peace"
means "war".
Would a serial killer be considered evil in your use of the term?
He certainly can't be good or altruistic by the original definition of
the word!
Selfish? possibly. Some of them get a feeling of pleasure or gratification from commiting their acts of crime.
Just as some thieves get more pleasure from the act of stealing and getting away with it than from whatever they have stolen.
It's the challenge in committing the crime that seems to be a thrill
for some.
How about someone like Saddam Hussein,Stalin,Caligula,Ivan the terrible
and other tyrants from history?
I don't consider them altruistic in any sense of the word.
I honestly feel that there are people who can get more pleasure either
out of hurting others or their feelings in some way.
Some of us like to take out our anger on others and get some satisfaction in doing so. That is just too obvious to even state.
I sometimes fanasize about doing this myself and acting like the ultimate jerk, just as some fantasize about having an erotic encounter with the opposite sex.
Deep down I want to believe or I want to be someone who gets pleasure by humiliating others,making them look like fools by outsmarting them,rubbing things in like bad reminders,and just somehow bring a cloud over their sunshine.
I want to be the person who when he dies will make everyone breathe a sigh of relief and pleasure.
Like the death of Stalin which according to some made many Russians feel a bit of relief as though an expected hurricane never showed up.
Why would I want this? Perhaps it's ego combined with having a chip on my shoulder. Maybe I just want to be the big bad wolf who terrorizes everybody. Even villians can gain respect and admiration as well as immortality. History after all is full of them.
I would sooner be remembered as a tyrant or an asshole rather than a fool or a wimp. Now that should be the motto of a real Satanist.
That's how one should really feel especially if they have any sense
of self-respect.
Like others I do have my issues or hangups but
I admit that thinking about possible consequences in regard to my actions does a lot to encourage me to exercise some self control.
But it's still nice to fantasize and I can still be an obnoxious prick every now and then and I can always make someone feel uncomfortable.
I enjoy turning some people off more than I do turning them on.
There is a part of me that wants to be a noncomforming bastard.
Where someone else wants to act like a gentleman I want to be rude
and painfully brusque with the opposite sex.
I don't dream of being a romantic ladies man I dream of being a jerk.
Funny isn't it? I envy the Arabs and other people in the middle east in
some respects. I'm not a muslim but there are some things I like about their culture and way of life that I wish I could get away with emulating. One is their treatment of women. I would like to get away with hitting or slapping around women without being arrested especially if they deserve it. To me it is one of the few places in the world where men are really men for this very reason.
They don't have feminist lesbians telling them how to think politically correct and how they should be acting around women.
If I was white or caucasian I would be tempted to be a redneck bigot
just to be the opposite of being a politically correct geek or moron.
Well judging by what I have said so far,I think I can say without bragging in the least bit and with a straight face this much.
I think based on my own self-reflection that I'm probably more of a real satanist than some others out there and perhaps maybe more than
you are.

Yours truely
Howard Lee

Re: altruism and selfishness

!

Cut those craps. just shut up and enjoy our life.

(Anonymous)
:D Vernace prefer enjoyig life instead of thinking all these philosopy.

this

(Anonymous)
I read the essay, but not the previous comments, so I don't know if this has been said or not.

I have held beliefs very similar to those of satanism for a while now, however I think this whole notion of sin is silly.

Basically, I believe that all human actions are for pleasure, bar a few weird instinct related things (some animals kill themselves for the pack). I believe that this is due to evolution. Basically, an animal is more likely to fight for its life if it has had past experiences of pleasure. Therefore pleasure too is an instinct. It's purely for survival.

Now that's alot different from sin and evil. The concept of sin requires there to be an opposite. There is none. All you can do is achieve pleasure, and if you aren't, you're trying to. You can't escape it. So there is no good, no evil, no sin, no nothing.

This brings me to a question of mine for someone to answer. Why is satanism connected to satan, evil, and this general "blackness"? In my mind there is no connection between instinct (pleasure) and satan. It should be called something like instinctism. And another thing, why is it a religion at all? I can see that it has beliefs, but beliefs are only there when something else could be true, they are there to guide you. Now with satanism, (and instinctism), what is there to be guided by? There are NO beliefs, other than the one that says that there is no meaning to life, no god, no creator, no nothing. That is not a religion, unless you make it into a social thing, and make up some beliefs to go with it. I don't see how a statement such as "Everything we do is for pleasure" can be the basis of a religion.

I know you are not stupid people, so there must be some reason for all of this. Maybe you're not a reigion at all, just a social club. Please give me the run down.


I agree that notions of "sin" are silly. Many Satanists' consider Satanism to be a philosophy and way of life, but not a religion. I personally consider it a religion. It's basically up to you.

Re: this (Anonymous) Expand

Moral Right

(Anonymous)
Dear Essay Writer,
To say that good exist only because of evil is foolish and misguided. It is evil that exist becaue of good. To prove this just look at the very creation of Satan. Satan, which represents evil, is a fallen angel created by God, who represents goodness. Saying that satanists enjoy being kind to others is a form of selfishness is extreme foolish and no matter how many times you tell yourself this it will never be true. Being kind to others makes you feel good because of your innate concious which leads us to good. Evil only gives us momentary pleasure, and in the long run it leads to unhappiness.

I do not believe in God, or Satan, I am not a Christian. This is not a Christian site, and is not based on Christian mythology. It is a site based on truth, science, logic, etc, and as such your arguments are pretty irrelevant.

If there is a god, it is evil. Any good that exists, if there is a god, was created by evil. Live with it.

http://www.dpjs.co.uk/god.html - if there is a god, it is evil.

Re: Moral Right (Anonymous) Expand

This is a two ways road

(Anonymous)
I'm not a satanist. I also don't go to any church. I believe in God, and for that I respect your believes. I just wanna make this point. In your site, you said that all good is based on evil, but all evil is also based on good, since if one of them doesn't exists the concept of the other is a mistake. The human species is both of everything. And, and once believing that everything once came from God, is natural all that we can feel, despite of Churchs (or religions) talking. If we can feel hate or anger, or any kind of these "bad" feelings, it's because we depend on them for something, the same way we need to feel the "good" feelings. all these things exists 'cause we need them, and it's wrongs to try to suppress them in any way. (i'm not saying that we should kill everyone we want or stuff like that, i'm saying that we need to learn to feel love and hate, in a certain way that didn't hurt anyone, but gives us satisfaction, or placer, or even peace.

Good relies on evil

(Anonymous)
I find your work very interesting and liberating. It is such a refreshment to see the world on both sides of the road insteat of one. Your comments and theory are very much so real. Thank you for what you have done. This has actually helped with my essay that I have to constuct.

Thanks Again

Altruism and Ego

(Anonymous)
What I don't understand is the intro to this paragraph if satan is willing to be blunt and straight forward on telling you on how selfish they are. Then why is it that we are always in the blind spot when someone evil hurts us. Although I feel this way I really do repect your theory on how people are social animals and need to socialize in order to keep sane

wake up!

(Anonymous)
You are a sinner by your own definition. How can all good be based on evil without the reverse also being true? You demonstrate total ignorance and stupidity with the contradictory statements that you stand by.
You are also giving total credence to the Christian faith by objecting to it totally; you are the antithesis of Christianity, reactionary, the exact opposite and therefore inextricably linked to it. You even name yourselves after a bible character.
You confused people.

Devils Advocate

(Anonymous)
The psychology seems sound and seamless… at first glance. Take another look though, analyze this again. You’ll notice it avoids the idea of a conscious completely. If you lie to somebody, deceive him or her completely. Nobody will know. Society will not view you as a less acceptable person. Yet, you still feel remorse, or guilt. Why? Because our “animal instincts” are balanced just as much by good as by evil. One cannot have a solo existence, neither can rely on the other.


“Me too. Despite the individualism of the left hand path I think being seen as good, nice or friendly by others is a requirement of our mental health and self esteem. Our ego demands that we are socially acceptable”

That fails to explain why one might feel remorse. If it hasn’t hurt anyone and your own reputation is left untarnished, then you should (by the arguments made) feel pride before guilt. Perhaps we need to dig a bit farther then our motives. Your motives have caused you to lie in the first place, something deeper brings this feeling of remorse. I could write you a book and not explain this to its fullest extent, yet the general idea is that our base instincts are balanced. Once you can accept that, then you can take full advantage of who you are as an individual.

Sincerely
Yours truly

Who's right?

(Anonymous)
After reading through everything that is said, I feel the need, or obligation to point out the fact the secular meaning of the word “sin” can be considered irrelevant. Anton LaVey used the word sin in a biblical context when he argued against faith. He argued against the concept of a god by using the term sin. However, he redefined the term as well (weather he used the secular meaning or twisted the religious connotation is irrelevant).

Example: (A poor example since I’m not in the “thinking mood”)
If I were to argue and critique Satanism, yet I decided to redefine the entire religion.

Am I still critiquing Satanism, as you know it? No, defiantly not. I’m critiquing Satanism as I have created it. In a sense, I am playing chess against myself. It is not obvious that whichever side I choose shall win? Satanism rejects the idea of God, which it has created for itself, not the true meaning of God.
That’s not to say that Judaism, Islam, Christianity, Hinduism, and Buddhism don’t accept only the meaning of god, which they have created for themselves. It’s possible that they do.
Perhaps one should speculate as to why each religion is so independent and yet also dependent on every other religion. Perhaps we all of different meaning for the words we use.
If you believe you’ve found a religion that relies on logic and reason any more then any other religion, then think again. No one religion has been found to be true, which is why there are so many. This is why millions of people die every year. Sickening? Maybe. Frustrating? Defiantly.
I sympathize with your beliefs; they are as valid to you as mine are to me.
I simply urge you not to be so rash as to wrap your mind around this single philosophy to the point that you can no longer be open-minded.

?

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