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Vexen Crabtree 2015


Vexen Crabtree's Live Journal

Sociology, Theology, Anti-Religion and Exploration: Forcing Humanity Forwards

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Vexen Crabtree 2015

Religion stats

The original page mentioned in this entry is now deleted, but the following pages are relevant: "The Numbers of Established Religions become Exaggerated" by Vexen Crabtree (2001) and "Christian Moral Theory and Morality in Action: Divorce Statistics" by Vexen Crabtree (1999)

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divorce rates

Well strictly speaking I guess you can say "fewer athiests get divorced" but honestly, from what I've seen and logically... fewer athiests bother getting married unless they mean it. So actually it seems quite impressive that ONLY 24% of christians (or whatever group it is) get divorced, considering there's such a big pressure to be married in the first place.

Re: divorce rates

applying to your report about divorice rates it doesnt depend on your religion. the religion does not matter in every religion people get divorced even they promised to be together through thick and thin.

Re: divorce rates

I found your comments on divorce among 'born-again' type Christians somewhat provocative. Perhaps that was your intention? Were you waiting for someone to point out that Christians, particularly the 'born-again' types are among those most insistent on marriage relationships. My experience tells me that Christians encourage couples to marry, rather than enter into promiscuous, casual or less committed relationships. I think for me I would have to say that the Christian way shows more love among couples than any other way. For those marriages which did sadly end in divorce, at least they tried to do things right. Better this than to settle for a lower standard, where commitment is not so important.(I write as a divorced 'born-again' Christian.)

divorce stats

I'm a Pastor of a church that is introducing new people to the Christian faith on a regular basis. From my experience, many people become Christians hoping it will save their marriages that are already in a mess. Having converted to Christianity their marriages are often too damaged to be repaired and divorce is unavoidable.
I have seen enough of this to believe that your statistics on Christian divorces may be greatly influenced by this trend.

The biggest?

I believe that it should have been stated that Islam may presently be the biggest religion. This is becasue no one is certain of the population or religion of many regions. And, can the billons of non-practicing Christians really be counted? It is clear these statistics need to be revised, and a note be made: It is completely possible that Islam currently has the most followers.

As you say, many members of world religions state a religion, but do not pratice it. Muslims do this too; I know many Muslims here in Afghanistan who call themselves Muslim, but do not actually practice their religion.

You seem to apply the logic of your argument to all religions *apart* from Islam... if you are consistent, then you will probably realize that it is more likely that secularism or atheism is the biggest single (lack of) belief in the world.

Re: The biggest?

I agree that the stats are misleading, but this is mostly because Christians have freewill to choose their religion. The stats are almost certainly misleading because I believe that many thousands of Muslims would prefer to be Christians, but are unable to express this freedom because of fear of repercussions from family and community. If you knew that to state your faith as a Christian could mean you were ex-communicated from your family, lost your home and job, and maybe even your life, then you might pretend to be a Muslim too!
Untill society allows true freedom of religious expression, any such statistics will remain unreliable.

Christianity is real

In 1994, just over 1 in 10 (about 550 million) people world wide had a relationship with Jesus. By the year 1999 that the number of christians had increased to 1.8 billion. By 2001 the number was 1.9 billion and presently stands at 2.2 billion.
In China, 30,000 people a day commit themselves to Jesus, in the face of persecution. There are 90 million christians in China today (and that's just the ones we know about, there are many more practising underground).
Korea has just been reclassified by the UN as a Christian nation, as people come to God in their millions.
Pastors from all over the globe are at this moment in Indonesia, telling people about the love of Christ. They come in their millions.
In 2005 alone, 1 million people in Egypt, again in the face of great danger, became Christian.
In Nigeria, 45.5% of the population is now Christian.

Like it or not, there has been a phenomenal explosion of christianity over the last 10 years. why? Because it is the truth. People, myself included, have seen absolutely amazing signs and wonders that cannot be attributed to anything but God.

It is quite evident that you absolutely despise God. If someone despises God, then they don't really know who he is. I've pasted the following article for you to read. My email address is at the bottom of the page in case anyone wants to continue the argument. God does exist, and he's very real and very powerful in the world today. My heart bleeds for people who do not know God's love. please at least think about it.

You might have every reason to hate the person you think God to be, but is that ‘God’ real? Your anger feels justified. We can understand infinite wisdom, however, no more than a babe understands its mother. What if your resentment towards God is like that of a desperately sick child who bites his doctor, imagining the caring doctor to be the cause of his torment, rather than his only hope of recovery? What a tragedy if you let the simple fact that you don’t have infinite IQ rob you of your greatest source of comfort.
God weeps. No one in a lifetime has been so spurned, so misunderstood, so much hated without cause as God is every moment of every day by millions of people, each of whom he loves more than we could conceive. No one is touched as deeply by humanity’s anguish as its Creator. No one is as aware of suffering humanity as God is, and no one loves with the intensity that God loves. And your pain intensifies his pain.
Even when the cause seems beyond human influence, all heartache can be traced not to God’s will, but to rebellion against God’s will. Many things are murky or unknown to us - the view from eternity, the non-physical realm, the intricate chain reaction set off from person to person and generation to generation whenever anything happens. Relative to the all-knowing Lord, we are as short-sighted as King Midas, who wanted everything he touched to turn to gold. We have no idea of the full consequences of our wishes coming true.
We vainly pit our puny intellect against the Infinite Mind, using brain cells he gave us to try to out-think him. If God’s ways don’t always make sense to us it merely confirms that our combined brainpower couldn’t light a single galaxy. And too often we confuse a good life with a soft life. Too often virtue slips in our priorities. Of necessity, God’s love must be like that of a wise parent, focusing on long-term good, even at the price of tearing his own heart by infuriating the tiny minds of people he loves. His goal is the highest good for all humanity, not some short-term gain that fizzles or ends up robbing others.
Although we can gain a little insight into God’s wisdom, were all our attempts to fail utterly, we have the security of knowing that our sorrow plunges a knife into the heart of the all-powerful Lord. That’s the ultimate proof that secreted within the stupendous intellect of Almighty God is an ingenious, love-filled reason for allowing it.


Re: Christianity is real

1. Islam however, is still the fastest growing religion (in terms of total adherents as % of world population) on the planet, and will be the dominant religion by the next decade if present trends continue. Also, paganism is growing much quicker that Christianity in a percent-increase-in-numbers-per-year scale. It's all very well making assertions about absolute Christian numbers, but as a % of the world Christianity is still in decline, and you'd do good to compare the numbers to those of other religions, otherwise you'll look like a fool.

2. I don't hate God. I don't hate Santa Claus. I don't hate the Tooth Fairy. The reason I don't hate any of these things, nor blame them for anything, nor do I "vainly pit" my intellect against Santa Claus or Garden Elves, because, very simply, none of those things exist.

3. You can believe all the things you say about God, as you wish, but you are still believing in make-believe fairy tales.

divorce stats

your divorce stats are wrong. They are higher for both: about 47-49%. Actually, Christian's divorce less...but not notably. However, marital satisfaction is a pretty big detail to add to the divorces stats. And guess who has the higher marital satisfaction rates?

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