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Vexen Crabtree 2015


Vexen Crabtree's Live Journal

Sociology, Theology, Anti-Religion and Exploration: Forcing Humanity Forwards

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Vexen Crabtree 2015

Institutionalized Religions Have Their Numbers Inflated by National Polls

"Institutionalized Religions Have Their Numbers Inflated by National Polls" by Vexen Crabtree

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Exactly, world religions adherents numbers are indeed seriuosly exaggerated, false.

Dude, yopu have said what I have been trying to say to people, and most of them don't wish to aknowledge it, even many freethinkers ignore this reality. I applaud your common sense friend.

Bill Baker

Trying to find some peace of mind

I found your site while I was searching for information on the satanic bible. I'm a christian. But I'm also very curious as to what is so appealing about other religions and I've noticed that there's truth in every single one. Now imagine how much better off we would be if we put these truth's together and set aside all of the rituals, stereotypes and "facts". The concept of christianity is that God lives through people to try and save us before we finally destroy ourselves in our suicidal dependancy on luxury. The bible is a human interpreation of moral values and scientific fact put together. To focus on one where it proves a point right, and then focus on another when it fits is so cliche. Even if the bible was just a mythology, why sit and breakdown every single point that the poor guy writing it was trying to make. All he was trying to do was save our sorry asses from ourselves. The bible is a beautiful book to read even if you don't beleive in god, look at how much good it's done from people who beleive in it. There's a difference between a christian and a "modern" christian. a true christian is someone who doesn't spit bible verses at you when they know you don't want to hear them. They don't imply their ideals on you. I do have to say, I don't even go to church anymore because it's no different from anywhere else. It bothers me that some christians think thier better than everybody else just becasue they beleive in god. There's so much hypocricy in everything it's sometimes over whelming. The only truth is change. And I think everybody has wasted enough time pulling other peoples life choices to pieces. We all know that this world going to end yet we leave it in ruins for the next generation. The only truth is change. Think about it, like you have been for so long. Where has all your thinking got you?

Re: Trying to find some peace of mind

Much of what you are saying (in 2005) is related to Deism - check it out. Have you developed your thoughts since 2005?

Re: Trying to find some peace of mind

There are unclear definitions of deism. Einstein, Thomas Jefferson, and many others are proclaimed by some to be deists. Jefferson even has his "Jefferson Bible" in which he dismisses much of the Bible but likes the parables with the disciples for their ethical teachings. However, deism has this odd belief in a soul and an afterlife. Rather hard to believe in that part of deism. No atheist or agnostic who laughs at the illogic of a god can rationally claim to be a deist, it would seem to me.

Religion Identification

I think that you have a "True Scotsman" fallacy here. If someone identifies themselves as a Christian, there is some meaning to that self-identification. To discount it because they don't prescribe to your definition seems odd.
I would describe myself as a Unitarian. Now, theologically, Unitarianism has something to do with a disagreement in the idea of the Trinity-that of the Father, Son, and Holy Ghost. I have no understanding what that means and don't really care. But the current UUA (Unitarian-Universalists of American) have this thing about 7 Principles that UUAs believe. Things like the free exchange of ideas. Really no dogma. But I don't attend church more than once every year or so and I disagree with most UUAs most of the time on social issues. I suspect that you would say that I am not really a Unitarian since I don't attend, don't fit in politically, and I don't believe in the Unity aspects of the Trinity. But I say that I am. Are you right and I am wrong?
Meanwhile, in Japan, something like 85% identify as Shintoists and 70% call themselves Buddhists. Some say that Shinto is not a religion and yet most books on religions seem to include it. I suspect that Shinto and Buddhist beliefs are deeply held and lived. Yet you say that 11% of Japan is religious?

God the abusive lover

I am gradually working my way through your website. Your thinking is a little deeper and broader than mine, as is your reading, but mostly I have arrived at the same conclusions as you.

One thought that you may have touched on but I have not seen exactly offered yet, is that religious belief fits the template of "abusive relationships." While there are many flavors, the traditional paradigm is an attractive woman in a relationship with a mean (or even violent) man. Every time someone tells her to break away, she says, "But I love him so much."

All life involves suffering and death without any purpose or meaning. Many of my close friends profess to be religious, some evangelical conservative, some new age and spiritual. When they talk about God's love, it's similar to a lover talking about how they know their abuser "really loves them." When they talk about the misfortunes of life, whether disease, deluge, disaster, decay, they say that God is "mysterious," just as a rejected or abused lover knows that if they only learn to talk correctly to the man who beats her (or him, as the case may be), the abusive lover will demonstrate love. For religious lovers, constant "prayer" corresponds to placating the abusive lover.

Here in the United States, about 70-90% of people claim to believe in God. My estimate (subjective, but compatible with your analysis here) is that 70-90% of people who profess to believe in God, really do not. Their reasons for their claims include desperate hope that Pascal's Wager (dreadfully flawed thinking as you have pointed out elsewhere) is really correct, or that religious belief is "good for" their children (that is, postpones the day when the children realize the existential dilemma), or that the silly hopes for Heaven and fears of Hell will persuade other people to be "good"; that is, not act like the sociopath/psychopaths in the genes of all human and dominant in all too many.

Re: God the abusive lover

Thank you for your reasonable thoughts; I'm going to mull over the "abusive relationship" idea for a while and see if it fits besides any text I've got at the moment!

Our own worst enemy is ...

Certainly a clear indicator that humans are (as you say) very stupid and nasty is how much unnecessary trouble we cause for ourselves and each other.

Things go wrong all the time from natural misfortunes we cannot always prevent or evade. Given the nastiness of "God’s" creation, reasonable people (which I define as people who agree with me, of course) would do as much as we reasonably good to work together to make life as enjoyable, safe, and satisfactory as possible. Nevertheless, besides earthquakes, cancers, tornadoes, heart attacks, floods, droughts, asteroids, and the like, think about how much energy, skill, cleverness, and cooperation we put into murders, wars, swindles, genocides, and how much completely unnecessary and superfluous suffering we inflict on ourselves and each other.

In my optimistic moments, I think that human civilization will "merely" collapse by the end of the century. I consider it more likely that we will simply destroy ourselves as a species. The cockroaches, rats, coyotes, starlings, pigeons, grackles, and the like will happily inherit the earth and not miss us for a millisecond.

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