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Vexen Crabtree 2015


Vexen Crabtree's Live Journal

Sociology, Theology, Anti-Religion and Exploration: Forcing Humanity Forwards

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Vexen Crabtree 2015

Virgin Birth & Christmas Story

Read essay online and leave comment here

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Astronomical events

I've read this in quite a few sources and think you should check it out to make sure all your facts are right on this page.

Astronomical records show that there were conjunctions of Saturn, Jupiter, and Mars in the years 7-6 BC. In 7 BC, the world saw a triple conjunction of Saturn and Jupiter in an event occurring only once every 125 years. Then early in 6 BC, Jupiter and Saturn grouped close to the planet Mars, a configuration repeated only once every 805 years. Later in the spring of 6 BC Venus, Jupiter, and Saturn also formed an unusually close grouping. Ancient astrologers believed that the area of the sky named Pisces where these conjunctions occurred contained signs pertinent to the Hebrew nation, so it is possible that the "Magi", blending a knowledge of Old Testament prophecies about a Messiah with heavenly observations (Numbers 24.17), were led to seek the predicted king in the Land of Israel.

Libran Lady

birth date of J.C.

Most Probable date 17th April 6BC Jupiter in Aries, Saturn in Aries, + Sun.
Moon eclipsed and revealed Jupiter at dawn Jupiter emerged as a morning star.

Probable death 26th April 0027 A.D.

God still Loves you.

Even though you are lost God still Loves you and wants you back. There is way to much information and evidence that Jesus Christ did live. Even most other religions dont argue that he lived. So If you are wrong on that point only dont you think you could be wrong on others? And If you are wrong what are the consequences? An eternity seperated from God is not something anyone should endure, thats why we have Jesus as a savior.
God has shown himself in my life in many ways that have no other explanations other then he is real. Read the Bible ask Jesus to take control and forgive you. And you will be saved.

Re: God still Loves you.

Let's make some assumptions:

1) You're right; I'm silly & ignorant, and if I don't become intelligent or wise then I'll pay the consequences.

If that is the case, then:

I do not want to spend eternity, or any amount of time, with a god that would condemn me for my lack of knowledge or sense. God is not forgiving, good or just if it condemns me for my lack of knowledge or for me being confused. I would rather suffer than condone the actions of such an immoral god: Does it condemn all others who don't see the "information and evidence"? Does God condemn people because of the health of their intellect? If that is so, then your god is malignant, and you're a servant of pain and death.

If that isn't so, then if I were you I'd be more concerned about your own confusion than other peoples.

God might have you in the palm of its hand, but if it's the god that you just showed me then it's your own worst nightmare.

Now, let's not make any assumptions and return to reality:

2) There is no god.


Re: God still Loves you.

The Creator of the universe has no desire to MAKE you believe anything. He says BE STILL and seek me earnestly and you will find the truth. He cares nothing for your intellect, knowledge or sense. He wants your heart. I dare you to REALLY seek. Many a TRUE seeker has been surprised by a Creator who really does exist. Your choice.

Slavonic Josephus and the star of Bethlehem

The birth of Jesus has three different dates according to the New Testament. Luke placed the date at 6 AD, at the census (Luke 2:1-3) and at 2 BC per the calculation of John the Baptist's arrival less thirty years (Luke 3:1 and 3:23). Matthew placed the date at the end of Herod the Great's reign, or from 9-4 BC. Obviously, there is a consistency problem with the Gospel accounts. However, most scholars come to the conclusion that Jesus was born in 9-4 BC. This dating is dependent on the "star of Bethlehem" story. The only other account of the "star of Bethlehem" comes from the Slavonic Josephus. This account placed the birth in the early years of Herod, around 25 BC. The "star of Bethlehem" may have been a Christian story, not an historical reality. This story may have had its origin in the Star Prophecy, where many Jews believed that a world ruler would come from Israel. (Josephus attributed the Star Prophecy to Vespasian.) In reality, the "star of Bethlehem" story has two possible dates. Most follow Matthew, who placed the time towards the end of Herod the Great's rule (9-4 BC). I follow the Slavonic Josephus, which dates this story about 20 years earlier, from 30-25 BC. The earlier dating has the following advantages: 1. According to Epiphanius, James, the brother of Jesus, died at the age of 96 in 62 AD. This would have yielded a birth date of 35 BC. This advanced age may be an exaggeration as the same church historian stated that James died a virgin. According to Paul, James was a married man. So, it is very possible that 96 years old is a slight stretch. However, James was probably a very old man at his death (80-96?). The birth of Jesus in 30-25 BC fits in quite nicely with James' age. 2. The Slavonic Josephus placed the beginning of John the Baptist's ministry at 6 AD, during the reign of Archelaus. This John was very fiery, the same as in the Gospels. However, the Slavonic version stated that John preached a nationalism identical to Judas the Galilean. The placement of the John passage was right before Josephus claimed that Judas the Galilean was a preacher different than all the others. Josephus also called Judas a wise man and a clever rabbi. (Josephus never said a word about Jesus!) 3. If Judas the Galilean was born about 25 BC, then he would have been 30 years old at the census uprising (6 AD and the introduction of John). At least, the earlier scenario about Jesus' (Judas the Galilean's) birth fits the other facts (James, John the Baptist and the age 30).

u saying matthew was a fraud

ok ur completley right about joesph not contributing to the lineage but in fact it was a virgin birth. if not then jesus would have been born in sin. and wouldnt have died for our sins. the thing ur not seeing is the fact that mary have lineage to king david as well. if u look at it closely. we find in luke that he shows marys lineage. this is great and dandy because it shows that this is of king davids descent. but the argument comes up what about womens rights. in deut. it says that rights pass through the men. soo the rights of unblemished blood cant flow to jesus through her. however theres another loopwhole. in numbers a man by the name of Zelophehad. he had all daughters and no sons. when he died the daughters went to mosses and mosses said that they would lose all inheritance. they thought this wasnt fair. so mosses prayed to God and he said to him that and acception can be made only if there are no sons, and they marry within in the tribe. in marys case we find that she had no brothers soo the inheritance went to her and she married within the same tribe. (joeseph was also of davids descent). therefore matthew was right that it was a virgin birth

if u wanna talk
email me at

Birth narratives

There is information that those interested in this topic may find useful on my web page at http://blue.butler.edu/~jfmcgrat/jesus/quirinius.htm

So what?

So what? Theologians are aware of all the connections to mythology in the Bible. A good story is a good story. Christian belief is belief in a man who actually lived and spent his life trying to make a difference for the better. All people are to be loved and true Christians do this. All people are our neighbors. It's about taking a leap of faith. Some folks just refuse to do it. ANd that's OK because God still loves them too. So....I ask again. So what? So what if it's not documented history? The stories are relevant and help us to live our lives. See the United Church of Christ web page to learn what real Christians believe.
Merry Christmas!

King Herod and murder of male children

It is funny. In Hinduism, an evil king 'Kamsa' fearful of a prophecy that the male child of his sister will kill him, orders the death of every male baby in his kingdom as his siter's child escapes him !! Guess all religions have a common mythical source.

nice bit of research

I enjoyed reading your papers , but as you have found many holes in Christianity I have also found many holes in your writtings which have come from your mis-interpretations of what is being said and for what reasons they are being said in biblical scriptures. Also it is probably next to impossible to realy prove or disprove anything or really grasp a full correct understanding of something that has taken place more than 2000 years ago. This is why in Christianity it is a faith walk..believing without seeing and experiencing substance resulting from an inner hope for something to come.
HAve a fun Journey

You may find these articles on virgin birth of interest and coming from an unusual angle


and, similarly TheologyWeb:

Forum — General Theistics 101
Thread — Does the Bible teach that Mary was a virgin when Jesus was conceived?


(Best to click on arrow on the right which will take you to the last post. Posts by Antony and Ben Lomond relevant.)



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